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Catechism have never much impressed me. They can be fun when used to entertain. Written and oral exam's helps to prove and improve the ability to learn, understand and apply the lessons of masonry. This is what works best for me.

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All of the above. Rising through the degrees should be a challenge. Another way to weed out unqualified men before they take leadership. If you can't dedicate the time necessary to prove proficiency in memorization, esoterics, history, and morality, then you don't have time for the fraternity. And I'll hear nothing about so and so has trouble with memorization... then he will have to work a little harder or find a different fraternity. Our historic brethren didn't lower standards, and neither should we.

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Brother Jack,

In the most friendly manner ... really? If he can't memorize "then he will have to work a little harder or find a different fraternity"? I'm pretty sure we don't claim that we make good men memorize better, so how did memorization become such a defining quality?

Is there another way a good man can prove his commitment to our Fraternity, because I've got to say that memorization seems like a pretty arbitrary quality. We've all heard others wax eloquently about the Masons they've known and what impressed them the most. Kindness, generous, faithful, fair minded, helpful ... not once have I ever heard anyone say, "Yes, my grandfather was a Mason. Wow, he had such a great memory." Or at least I can't remember anyone saying anything like that.

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Let's look through the other comments here. Of the two men mentioned who had legitimate TBI related issues with the work. One of them took the extra effort to work past his disability and succeed in the fraternity. The other turned out to be too lazy to be a good contributor anyway. It is possible to overcome. It might be harder for some than others. But those high standards are crucial to provide an elite experience. Is this an elite fraternity,or just the moose club with aprons? If it's elite, we need to have barriers to entry and advancement. If its lowest common man, I guess I need to be the one to leave, because my experience thus far has been well below my expectations of the oldest, most elite men's fraternity in the world.

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Brother Jack, Again in the most friendly manner, if you came here to judge other Brothers then perhaps you are in the wrong place. I hope that's not the case. Rather, I hope you'd consider that there are legitimate reasons why memory skills are much better in some and much worse in others, and the reasons for much worse memory skills aren't limited to "legitimate" injuries.

We all show up with flaws. Some are more obvious than others, and and some are far more serious than poor memory skills. If on balance a man is a good man our first obligation is to meet him on the level. Even those placed on the lowest spoke of fortune's wheel are entitled to our regard.

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Regard and kind offices yes. Membership? No. We rightly limit membership to those physically mentally spiritually and financially stable. A fool isn't a clown. It's a person of limited mental capacity.

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Brother Jack, with all due respect, I know of Brothers gifted with finance and numbers, others adept with mechanical items while other the talent of the arts. Memorization is not the sole attribute of mental capacity. Yes, maintaining tradition is vital and proficiency is necessary to rise to or through leadership.

Oral and written exams can also demonstrate a deep and full understanding of the morality, fraternity, symbiology and esoteric history of the craft. Time within the Lodge can inspire and hone the memorization, especially if a Brother wishes to rise.

I believe in allowing the combination of both if someone is struggling.

As stated by others, I know of someone who has a neurological condition that makes memorization difficult, but has an complete ability to fully understand and express things. It is not a question of mental capacity. I would not want to think this good man would not be accepted into our fraternity if he so chose to join.

Outside of the fraternity in a work environment, a newly hired employee struggled to get their work done in time. They began to doubt themselves to continue and management was close to giving up on them. After a long while it finally "clicked" for them and went on to become one of the best employees I've seen. Thorough, competent and very well liked. They even went on to become an excellent trainer of new employees. My point being, everyone has different learning methods and timelines. Through patience, repetition and consistent exposure to others doing the work, they became very adept.

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has difficulty yes. But can. He just has to work hard at it. That's the point. Hard work. Rising through the degrees shouldn't be easy for anyone. Putting on a good program of any kind requires a certain amount of recitation and public speaking. The degree work is a theatrical play. Would you hire an actor who has to read his lines? My grammar school Christmas pageant wouldn't even tolerate that level of sloth from 6 year Olds. Any man who says he can't memorize must be completely unable to communicate. How else could he possibly remember English vocabulary? I'm not good at memorization myself. It took me 90 hours of repetition to learn my EA posting lecture. I am a better man for it because I hadn't tried to do that level of memorization since participating in a high-school play 25 years before. Standards should be high.

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A combination of both. The memorization is needed as well as getting in and understanding our work. I did the alternate way in 1999. I believe it was nee then and I might have been the test person. I do wish I had also learn the catechism as well. That only came along later as I started working with new Brothers. I feel I lost something king the way. But the alternate way did get me thinking more about the lessons in the degrees.

Some men will have issues with memorization due to medical conditions. Traumatic Brain Injury (TBI) is fairly common among veterans that I personally know. Sometime long term memory is affected and sometimes it's short term. But this shouldn't be a reason to keep them from joing our Craft.

Some days with TBI are better than others.

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Witnessed a brother who had TBI, return his second this year. Heavy stutter, changed many words. He insisted on doing everything, no slack in his efforts. Army Vet.

Afterwards he was upset, saying he screwed it up. But such was not the case.

The WM pulled him aside, told him his efforts showed he inculcated the lessons internally. That masonry values no man for his external, but his internal values.

Guess who asked to be a steward next meeting?

Let us not lose sight of the qualities we look for. Not change the standard, instead encouraging our brothers to train, and help them do so.

"We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training." - Archilochus

Freemasonry is half moral training program, half fellowship. All fraternity. The men who would otherwise remain at a perpetual distance from me; become my greatest mentors and friends.

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Well as someone who has just proved up on the second ( long form in lodge) I love the idea of memorizing the posting lecture and actually understanding it. It makes you understand more of it and shows that you actually understood what happened.

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That's a big key -- understanding what you have memorized. It stays with you longer, and you can build on that knowledge that you've committed to memory in the future. This is what, over time, leads to wisdom, when combined with lessons learned through experience.

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Memorization of a story or ritual has been around since time immemorial. Religions of all faiths rely on it to teach, and to also attempt to connect with a higher power. Catholics learn Latin, Jews learn Hebrew, both learn Greek, etc. We all (if you're American) can say the pledge of allegiance from an early age, even though most kids don't understand what they are reciting.

And of course, who can forget "Pie Jesu Domine – Dona Eis Requiem" (*clunk*).

As I've mentioned previously, memorization of the posting lecture is important for a young mason's career as it sets a foundation for mater, especially when they decide to start that (hopefully) long climb up the ladder to the east. Not only learning the posting lecture, but helping younger members learn theirs, or practicing together. Seeing the degrees after you've gone through one yourself is also incredibly important. I went to at least a dozen (once, three in one night at #2) EA degrees before I proved up for my FC degree. Every chance I could I searched out a lodge within driving distance to attend degrees. At the time, my home lodge didn't require publicly proving up in lodge, just a thumbs up from our coach, except for the MM degree posting lecture, which was to prove proficiency so we could take a chair.

In Washington state, all that is required to be considered ready to advance to the next degree is the bare minimum - grip/pass and the obligation. That's it. You only need to do that for the first two degrees to be considered a MM in good standing. You may not be able to take a chair, but you can do just about anything else.

But when it comes time for you to mentor or help a new brother, can you? Can you actually read the cipher? Can you fill in the blanks in the passages? Can you properly guide the new brother through the degrees?

I agree, just because someone can't memorize the work due to some physical or mental problem, that doesn't take away from his quality as a mason. We had a young mason, a great guy, ex army, who suffered a traumatic brain injury, not from combat, but from a car accident in Oklahoma. He moved back to Washington state to live near his mother, because he couldn't do a lot for himself. He had severe memory issues, he couldn't retain much week to week. He couldn't drive himself. But he loved masonry and coming to lodge (if someone would give him a ride).

But the problem was, he loved masonry because of his buddies back in Oklahoma who were all lodge brothers his age that enjoyed the same things he did when he was mentally healthy. All of that was gone, and he couldn't get the same interaction with his new lodge mates. We were all a bit older (not a lot, but there was a little bit of a gap) and we didn't have much in common, especially the lifestyle he wanted to live. I had taken him out to lunch one time to try and work out just what we could do to make his life and lodge experience better. Did he want to watch movies? No. Go listen to music, or play board games, or go to a pub and have a beer? Attend sports? Go bowling? No. He didn't want to get a job because he was getting 100% disability for his TBI, and felt why work for almost nothing. What he wanted to do was to sit in his apartment, get high, and play video games. His friends were at the marijuana dispensary next door to his home. I have nothing against weed, but I don't personally imbibe, and since most of the lodge members were active duty military, or retired, drug use wasn't a thing we did.

He eventually quit coming to lodge, and shortly after that he committed suicide. I think his mom blames us for his passing, but frankly, the guy just didn't want to be helped and we weren't the solution to his problems. I feel bad, and still think of him from time to time though.

Why did I type all that? I dunno. Just talking about TBI got me thinking about that departed brother again and I felt a need to share.

Anyway, as was discussed last night, there is certainly more than regurgitating words to masonry. This is the point of "better lodge experience" we have been talking about here for ages. For some people learning the ritual is the end all be all to masonry. It's not, and was never intended to be, yet for some, that's all that's required. But for a lot of us, especially the younger generation, they want more than the boring stale meetings the fraternity has found itself doing for decades.

I love doing ritual work. I take pride in mine and strive to do as well as I can when conferring a degree, because I want to provide to that brother the best possible experience, he's only going to do it once in his life. But there is also the philosophical (and esoteric) side that needs to be explored. Or else, we're nothing more than the Elks with funny aprons.

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I am sorry to read about the loss of that young Lodge Brother. It sounds as if his troubles were quite profound, and that you, and your Lodge tried all you could to help.

>>In Washington state, all that is required to be considered ready to advance to the next >>degree is the bare minimum - grip/pass and the obligation. That's it. You only need to do that >>for the first two degrees to be considered a MM in good standing. You may not be able to >>take a chair, but you can do just about anything else.

This is true, for a Lodge that chooses to hold to such a low standard.

But, in this Jurisdiction, the Lodge is the sole judge of its own proficiency. It can set as high of standards as it deems suitable. It's not something that the Grand Lodge has ever seen fit to meddle with. I think we need more things that we don't meddle with, but alas, that is a discussion for another day.

Related to this though, I was sitting in a Lodge dining hall one night, following a Stated Meeting, and we started a mighty in depth discussion about Masonic experiences. One of the men, an experienced Mason, and Secretary of the Lodge, opened up about the fact that he had never visited another Lodge. When asked why, he said that when he became a Mason, they just glossed over his proficiency. Didn't even really require him to learn the signs and words. As a result, he was too nervous to visit another Lodge, afraid he would be shown to be without proper knowledge of these things.

It was a sad thing, and points out that we rob our Brothers when we don't try to teach them.

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When I was in line at my lodge I became aware that the quality of ritual proficiency was very low, and at times the opening and closing would grind to a painful halt. This set the tone of the whole evening. There is something magical about our opening and closing ritual that can be the opening to a great meeting.

I was raised in VA, and there I sat for examination for all three degrees. In fact, all the lights were lowered, except for the altar lights that illuminated my mentor and myself. We did my proficiency test with the whole Lodge watching. When I was done they actually voted on my performance. That experience made me feel I had earned my degrees and gave me a right to sit among my peers, and set me up to be better at ritual work. In my VA Lodge, which met every other Tuesday, the alternate Tuesdays were used for proficiency practice, and many of the regular attendees in Lodge would show up.

When I became Master I required the standard proficiency, and I can say that all of those brothers are good at ritual. NO ONE failed to pass the standard proficiency, though some required extra mentoring. The extra effort in some case built bonds between mentors and mentees.

I agree that the true proficiency is in the heart and spirit of a Mason, and that should be the ultimate guide for advancement, but there is no reason to not require the standard proficiency also.

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Learning something as complex as ritual can be tricky because different people learn different ways. Most of us of a certain age learn by reading reinforced by writing because that’s the way we were taught to learn. Today’s young people learn visually because, alas, no one reads anymore. Others learn by sound. Musicians and linguists are good examples. When my daughter was young, she took up the violin and in middle school, she picked up the Japanese language as if she were a native speaker. Her music teacher said musicians learn with their ears and there’s a correlation between music and picking up a language. Personally, I learn best by reading and writing. However, when it comes to ritual, I learned best by oral recitation. This was also how I got through Pike’s Morals and Dogma, by listening to the audio book. So, in answer to the question posed, I think the bottom line is we want people to learn the best way they can. As a result, I think we should have a myriad of options open. Just because some of us learned things one way does not necessarily mean it’s the only way or right way.

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Correct. My method of memorization is so unusual that even though I can memorize things easily, I can't really teach someone how to best do it. My methods almost never work with anyone else, so instead, I try to find the best methods that work for that specific 'student.' Interestingly, it can work with the Brother, and it helps me as a teacher, as it prompts me to think outside the box and acknowledge that every person has a different method of learning.

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I have a great amount of respect and admiration to those within our craft who possess phenominal memorization. I do not have this gift. I have no "medical or phsical reason and resent the idea that I should find another fraternaty. Yes, I can memorize small parts but it takes a great amount of effort for me and I often learn these parts by doing them. I have discovered that I am far from alone in this respect. Look around your lodge for those who sit quietly on the sideline and if you look farther you will find many who no longer attend. Does our lack of memorization skills mean that we should never have become a Mason? Does this mean that the great motto of "making good men better" applies only to those who can memorize and the rest were really never good men in the beginning and should not be made better? I think not. I believe that Masonry is much more than being able to memorize. Those who lack memorization skills should not be penalized and left to sit on the sidelines as a second class Mason but should be encouraged to move forward as we make "good men better". Yes, those of us who lack the great skill of memorization need a lot of help from our betheren to first understand and then to help as we do our work in the lodge using whatever we have to to do our part. I am proud to say that my own lodge possesses great empathy and has done nothing but encourage me and others. The alternative method of proficiancy was a great step forward in bringing in men without memorization skills but I do agree that it should be used maimly as an educational tool and an alternate method of proficiency.

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I learned most of my ritual work just by sitting in lodge and mentally reciting the words as the officers recited them. I eventually could do the closing charge without opening the book. Same with the other pillars. This is outside the posting lecture, of course, which I studied really hard to get my proficiency.

We have plenty of brothers that have no desire to learn the work. No one looks down on them or treats them poorly. The difference is, we're not expecting anything out of them other than try and be as best a man and mason as he can be. If someone can't or won't take a chair, that's up to them. Any lodge that treats a brother like you describe sucks as a lodge.

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Sitting in Lodge, as you mention, can I think be the easiest of all ways to memorize the ritual.

My own ritual ability has gone up and down through the years. When I was brand spanking new, it was superb. When I was Master of my Lodge it was superb. Then when I became a DDGM and a Grand Lodge Officer I had little occasion to use it, so it fell off. Then covid hit, I didn't sit in Lodge for a year and a half, and I lost most all of it.

Since June, when the Pandemic restrictions were lifted, I've been visiting multiple Lodges a week. I don't open Lodges, and I close them using my own version of Ample Form, but seeing it so frequently, I've got it all back, without any effort, just hearing it over and over again.

Another commenter mentioned his home Lodge meeting once per week. Most of our Lodges meet once per month. I imagine we would all be much better ritualists if we met weekly instead of monthly, and my hunch is that many other things would be improved as well.

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I'm in WB Glenn's camp on this one. I also learned the closing charge by memory simply by attending many Lodge meetings, and paying attention to the Worshipful Master reciting the charge (being mindful of what is being said.) Similar to how you wind up memorizing a commercial jingle.

I also agree with Glenn that even though I am blessed to have excellent memorization skills, I don't look down on those who do not. This is a stance I developed in my childhood, when I was scorned by my classmates in grade school as a "weirdo" when I showed my teachers I had memorized the number Pi to 50 decimal places. They treated me with disdain, but I vowed I'd never reciprocate that negative opinion of those classmates. Doing so would only drag me down. I needed to move forward. Eventually my classmates came to respect me for my capabilities, but also for my respecting them for what talents they had as well. When I joined Freemasonry when I was 21, I found that the Brothers quickly learned of my skill and encouraged me to build on it. They also encouraged me to build on other skills that I wasn't so good at.

This is a primary reason why I'm still active in this Fraternity 25 years later.

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I agree completely Brother

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I'll borrow a quote from the 1929 Proceedings of the GL of Florida to make my point, "It is improper for the Worshipful Master at any time to make the statement that the Lodge is about to ballot upon the proficiency of a candidate. The Lodge is always balloting upon the worthiness and qualifications of the applicant to be passed and raised just the same as when balloting upon a candidate to receive the E.A. Degree."

I am certified by the GL Committee on Work to instruct catechisms and deliver the Entered Apprentice Lecture, so it seems ironic that for me memorization is the least important aspect of proving proficiency in a Degree. Different Brothers require different approaches and the truth is not every Brother is blessed with a good memory. To look down on Brothers that struggle with memory work or even go as far as blocking their advancement is unmasonic in my opinion. A Brother that memorizes the entire work to perfection has just as much value to the Lodge as a Brother that actively participates in meetings and discussions and lends himself to the service of the Craft in other ways.

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It should be the responsibility or desire of Past Master to mentor the new members of their lodge. The fist two degree can be done by committee if desired by the WM. But when it come to the MM degree proficiency in open lodge is the only way it should be done. The new candidate proficiency written program and quiz are the helpful means to learn the Masonic work. Then again I say where are the past Master for the help?? Our lodge has weekly sections mentoring the new officers as well as the the new members with their proficiency. And we have fun doing so. Sound like an old record!

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There's no question that memorization is an admired quality among Masons. Without checking the Masonic histories of the Brothers who have contributed to this thread I'm going to guess than many have been Masons for 20+ years, which means that their first impressions of proficient Masonry came from Masons who were around for 20+ years 20+ years ago. Lodges have changed a lot since then.

I'm told that it used to be that Lodges were routinely much fuller than they are now and that there wasn't the rush to advance young Masons through the chairs as there is now. I suppose that if a Mason routinely attended to sit and observe on the sidelines for five or ten years before taking their first chair that sooner or later their memories would capture a lot of the ritual. But time and routine are two elements that seldom exist these days. The outer world has changed too, and memory isn't a skill that modern education methods employ to the same extent as days gone by.

Put them together and what to you get? Incoming Masons today show up with a different skill set, we don't give them as much time to get ready for ritual recitation, and their busy lives prevent them from showing up routinely. We either adapt to this or become a bunch of old men sitting around complaining that nobody remembers the ritual as well as (they still believe) they do. Oy!

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You're absolutely right. Lodges in the past had so many members that there was a waiting list for brothers to step into the line. That's not necessarily a good thing. On the other hand, pushing a brother into a chair as soon as he's raised (I know brothers that were tossed into the south immediately after proving up) is worse. There are brothers sitting in the East who never once conferred a degree.

Now, there's nothing wrong with those brothers, far from it. But it denied them the joys of doing the other chairs, doing a vast majority of the roles and ritual work that a brother otherwise is required to do before becoming WM. I really do feel bad for them.

In my humble opinion, no new MM should ever voluntarily take any chair higher than JD, preferable they start out at least as a steward, and they should refuse to skip chairs because of expediency of the lodge not being able to find volunteers. Shame on the lodge for not pushing a PM to take that chair instead. And shame on those PMs not stepping up when the lodge needed you. Instead, you denied that new brother the opportunity to enjoy his travels to the east.

Was being Master of the Lodge so horrible that you'd never do it again?

I know these are harsh words, but seriously, they need to be said.

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I agree with the view that we often push men too quickly into the chairs. My own progression through the Lodge chairs was quite strange, but slow, and I think that slowness proved extremely helpful to me as I grew as a Mason.

I started about six months after I was Raised in the Junior Stewards Chair, and moved to Senior Steward the next year. After that I moved, so there was a time in which I was again a sideliner. The new Lodge slid me in as Senior Deacon, then I skipped Junior Warden for the Senior Warden Chair, taking over as Master the following year.

I think that time of about three years as Steward and sideliner really helped me to understand the Lodge and how a Lodge should operate. I don't think that I would have gotten that same understanding without those three years of being able to just sit and watch.

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I proved proficiency by delivering all three posting lectures in open Lodge. I believe that was the best way to do it, not because of anything it taught really, but because of how doing so helped me later on.

First of all, doing so gave me confidence. I learned that I could memorize something extremely long, and deliver it well. That made what came later easier.

Secondly, at least in Washington, much of what is in the Posting Lectures are ritual snippets utilized elsewhere. By learning those snippets as part of the catechism, I already had them down when I took chairs, so had less new that needed to be learned.

I wasn't, and still am not a fan of the 'Book and Test' method, but I know some people disagree with me.

Better than the 'Book and Test' method in my opinion, for those who can't or don't memorize, or for Lodges that aren't into requiring the posting lectures would in my opinion be to have a candidate write an essay about what he learned in the Degree. Not something just tossed off, but a serious effort on the Degree, or some part of the Degree that truly spoke to him.

Best of all, in my opinion, would be a combination of the posting lectures, and essays. I think that is rare in the Masonic world, but not unheard of.

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