I agree totally RWB. Too many times I've been told this man is a friend of mine and I just talked him into becoming a Mason. Did you follow the 6 steps? What other Brothers have met him? Did you have to beg him to make a decision, that will affect not only him as well as the craft? Invite him to breakfast with a few of the fraternity, let us see for ourselves how he would fit into our Lodge. We're not a social club, but on the other hand we socialize with each other. Never ever twist a Brothers arm to sign a petition, just because this man is your friend. I've seen the disaster of All-the-Way-In-a-Day Degrees and even though the numbers coming in, it's the number of those who stay for the long run. Mercenary motives in joining has led a Brother to ruin my business and others lives. Be wary, but inviting. Don't rush in, or rush to judgment. Let time be the monitor. I have 3 candidates who waited a time with patience for restrictions to be lifted, so they could join our fraternity. Even though right now we cannot initiate, we can now vote to initiate the process.
I think you are exactly right. If we slow down, let some time pass in order to get to know a man. When enough time passes, a picture of him will develop, usually for the good, but sometimes for the bad.
It is when we rush that mistakes get made.
And I am as guilty of those mistakes as anyone else. The important thing is to learn from them when they happen.
I often struggle personally with my own weaknesses as a person in social settings. Although your post doesn't make any specific mention of my faults, I can't help but wonder if I am one of those off-putting individuals who drives people away. If I had to start over and petition a more discerning lodge than the one I joined, would I have been admitted?
Knowing my own faults and seeing them in someone else petitioning after I have already been admitted by a lodge with low standards, would I have the courage to select the black stone and deny entry thus making myself a hypocrit?
Since I am not currently active in any lodge, nor representing masonry in any way other than my participation in discussions here, my influence is insignificant whether positive or negative.
Unless of course someone reading my posts here as a candidate is turned off by posts I've made.
One thing I could use to become a better man is insightful observation about why I have trouble making friends and usually end up driving them away if we interact too closely for a year or more.
Personally, I think that you are way too hard on yourself.
That said, you recognize that you have some things that you need to work on. I too have things that I need to work on, things that I tend to do that I shouldn't do, mistakes I make. We all have them.
The fact that you recognize them, and want to work on them, is what proves to me that you are one of the good men we need in Masonry.
The men who concern me are those who think that they are without flaw, who think that they are always right, and that the rest of the world is wrong.
You can’t truly know a man. I’ve sat in my share of investigations, and I’ve found that the petitioner will pretty much tell you whatever you want to hear. You can ask all the right questions and still end up with someone who walks away or, becomes a problem for the lodge.
The six step program helps, but isn’t completely reliable, or an indication that a brother will stay. I was handed a petition the moment I stepped foot in lodge. We’ve had a few that in spite of assurances from brothers, we never see again. Most of the time it’s because they can’t do the work required to progress. I always stress to those seeking admittance that there is a lot of memorizing required to advance. All of them claim it won’t be a problem. Until they are faced with it. You can give them the working tools to memorize before signing the petition, just to see if they are willing to put in the time and effort, and that might alleviate some of the issues.
Guarding the west gate is vital, but today, it’s impossible to weed out all of the potential problems.
I do agree that it is impossible to weed out all of the problems. But I think that we can weed a lot of them out, and that doing so is worth the effort.
I imagine that when investigating we all look for different signs. I find watching the man's spouse or significant other tends to yield significant perspective at times. How she seems to react to what he is saying.
I don't see any program or method in guarding the West Gate as a 100% guarantee to filter out those coming to join for the wrong ideas. When we are able to have our social gatherings again and can bring those men to our dinners and special events, then we can better know them before balloting. And they can get to know us better as well to see if our Lodge is suited for them.
There was 3 of us that came into the Lodge around the same time frame in 1999. I'm the only one left.
Although it seems like this works to get good men into the Craft, it doesn't always seem like the right way to entice someone to knock at the Door. The youth groups not requiring Masonic connections to allow the kids to join have brought men into the Lodges. Even though they did so they could fully participate with their children. Some men will stay after the kids reach majority, but hopefully some will stay. It does seem that many good ones do stay. Not sure if I worded that real well. Might be a good conversation and not blog.
I believe that I know what you are saying, and if memory serves that is how we snagged RW Steve Martin for Sultan-Monroe Lodge. Through Rainbow. I've heard stories from other men who became Masons for that reason, but have remained long after.
This is an issue that is very important to me. I want to start by saying the average man is likely a good man. I have always thought the test was, "is he good enough to benefit from being a Mason? " Just being good, is not good enough, a man has to be good and WANT to be better. The next thing that matters is what he means by better? Richer? More powerful? More politically affluent? No thanks. Does he want to be seen as better, through association?, No thanks. In my opinion the 'better' that is best is a man who is trying his best to be compassionate, spiritual and enlightened, a man who seeks the strength to act on those qualities for the betterment of everyone, not just himself. The better that is best, in my opinion is a man who wrestles with himself, already trying to subdue his passions. What I have seen, because of the economic stress of our huge temples and the diminishing membership, is that we have all but started the wholesale recruiting of males (men who act like teenagers), not even necessarily men. Twice in the last 10 years men I have called brothers, who I have worked with, have been convicted of child sexual crimes. Ironically in one case it was a child pornography case and brethren in Lodge quit because that man was expelled, feeling that child pornography did not hurt anyone! Let that sink in, men who were Masons quit Masonry because a child pornographer was expelled. I have seen petty childish behavior, some of it threatening and destructive (property not just emotionally). We have to do better or there is no point. I hate to say this, but if I am being 100% truthful, the fact that a man is a Mason no longer equates in my heart to him being a 'good man' automatically. I am still open to the idea that he is a good man, but it's not automatic. I know all men are flawed, as am I, thats the human condition, but there is a moral and ethical line the good men with flaws will not cross. We have new tools available to us. We can do criminal searchs electronically, we can check with other jurisdictions to make sure a man has not been expelled from another Grand Lodge, and we can start viewing the investigation as something meant to weed out unqualified men, rather than something we just do out of routine. Once a man becomes a brother we can hold him accountable to a higher standard. I feel bad writing what I wrote, but I think we need to start having this conversation.
I think that you are correct, unaffordable Temples that never should have been built to the scale that they were, are what is driving many Masons to accept whatever man knocks on the door.
If a Temple is unaffordable, the Lodge should look at turning it into a profit generating event space. If that is impossible or doesn't work, the Lodge should sell it. A Lodge does not need to own a Masonic Temple.
It is absurd that Lodges will allow their Temple to bankrupt the Lodge, and it is absurd for Lodges to believe that initiating an unsuitable man will somehow save the Temple. Yet far too often, those are the case.
At least in Washington, the number of suspension letters that go out are clear proof that we are not doing nearly enough to guard our West Gate.
I agree totally RWB. Too many times I've been told this man is a friend of mine and I just talked him into becoming a Mason. Did you follow the 6 steps? What other Brothers have met him? Did you have to beg him to make a decision, that will affect not only him as well as the craft? Invite him to breakfast with a few of the fraternity, let us see for ourselves how he would fit into our Lodge. We're not a social club, but on the other hand we socialize with each other. Never ever twist a Brothers arm to sign a petition, just because this man is your friend. I've seen the disaster of All-the-Way-In-a-Day Degrees and even though the numbers coming in, it's the number of those who stay for the long run. Mercenary motives in joining has led a Brother to ruin my business and others lives. Be wary, but inviting. Don't rush in, or rush to judgment. Let time be the monitor. I have 3 candidates who waited a time with patience for restrictions to be lifted, so they could join our fraternity. Even though right now we cannot initiate, we can now vote to initiate the process.
I think you are exactly right. If we slow down, let some time pass in order to get to know a man. When enough time passes, a picture of him will develop, usually for the good, but sometimes for the bad.
It is when we rush that mistakes get made.
And I am as guilty of those mistakes as anyone else. The important thing is to learn from them when they happen.
I often struggle personally with my own weaknesses as a person in social settings. Although your post doesn't make any specific mention of my faults, I can't help but wonder if I am one of those off-putting individuals who drives people away. If I had to start over and petition a more discerning lodge than the one I joined, would I have been admitted?
Knowing my own faults and seeing them in someone else petitioning after I have already been admitted by a lodge with low standards, would I have the courage to select the black stone and deny entry thus making myself a hypocrit?
Since I am not currently active in any lodge, nor representing masonry in any way other than my participation in discussions here, my influence is insignificant whether positive or negative.
Unless of course someone reading my posts here as a candidate is turned off by posts I've made.
One thing I could use to become a better man is insightful observation about why I have trouble making friends and usually end up driving them away if we interact too closely for a year or more.
Personally, I think that you are way too hard on yourself.
That said, you recognize that you have some things that you need to work on. I too have things that I need to work on, things that I tend to do that I shouldn't do, mistakes I make. We all have them.
The fact that you recognize them, and want to work on them, is what proves to me that you are one of the good men we need in Masonry.
The men who concern me are those who think that they are without flaw, who think that they are always right, and that the rest of the world is wrong.
You can’t truly know a man. I’ve sat in my share of investigations, and I’ve found that the petitioner will pretty much tell you whatever you want to hear. You can ask all the right questions and still end up with someone who walks away or, becomes a problem for the lodge.
The six step program helps, but isn’t completely reliable, or an indication that a brother will stay. I was handed a petition the moment I stepped foot in lodge. We’ve had a few that in spite of assurances from brothers, we never see again. Most of the time it’s because they can’t do the work required to progress. I always stress to those seeking admittance that there is a lot of memorizing required to advance. All of them claim it won’t be a problem. Until they are faced with it. You can give them the working tools to memorize before signing the petition, just to see if they are willing to put in the time and effort, and that might alleviate some of the issues.
Guarding the west gate is vital, but today, it’s impossible to weed out all of the potential problems.
I do agree that it is impossible to weed out all of the problems. But I think that we can weed a lot of them out, and that doing so is worth the effort.
I imagine that when investigating we all look for different signs. I find watching the man's spouse or significant other tends to yield significant perspective at times. How she seems to react to what he is saying.
If that was followed, I’d never been accepted. My wife during the investigation said “but what if he is a bad man?” Yeah.
I take it you were in the dog house at the time Brother?
At the time? Lol I never left.
Understand that!
I don't see any program or method in guarding the West Gate as a 100% guarantee to filter out those coming to join for the wrong ideas. When we are able to have our social gatherings again and can bring those men to our dinners and special events, then we can better know them before balloting. And they can get to know us better as well to see if our Lodge is suited for them.
There was 3 of us that came into the Lodge around the same time frame in 1999. I'm the only one left.
Although it seems like this works to get good men into the Craft, it doesn't always seem like the right way to entice someone to knock at the Door. The youth groups not requiring Masonic connections to allow the kids to join have brought men into the Lodges. Even though they did so they could fully participate with their children. Some men will stay after the kids reach majority, but hopefully some will stay. It does seem that many good ones do stay. Not sure if I worded that real well. Might be a good conversation and not blog.
I believe that I know what you are saying, and if memory serves that is how we snagged RW Steve Martin for Sultan-Monroe Lodge. Through Rainbow. I've heard stories from other men who became Masons for that reason, but have remained long after.
This is an issue that is very important to me. I want to start by saying the average man is likely a good man. I have always thought the test was, "is he good enough to benefit from being a Mason? " Just being good, is not good enough, a man has to be good and WANT to be better. The next thing that matters is what he means by better? Richer? More powerful? More politically affluent? No thanks. Does he want to be seen as better, through association?, No thanks. In my opinion the 'better' that is best is a man who is trying his best to be compassionate, spiritual and enlightened, a man who seeks the strength to act on those qualities for the betterment of everyone, not just himself. The better that is best, in my opinion is a man who wrestles with himself, already trying to subdue his passions. What I have seen, because of the economic stress of our huge temples and the diminishing membership, is that we have all but started the wholesale recruiting of males (men who act like teenagers), not even necessarily men. Twice in the last 10 years men I have called brothers, who I have worked with, have been convicted of child sexual crimes. Ironically in one case it was a child pornography case and brethren in Lodge quit because that man was expelled, feeling that child pornography did not hurt anyone! Let that sink in, men who were Masons quit Masonry because a child pornographer was expelled. I have seen petty childish behavior, some of it threatening and destructive (property not just emotionally). We have to do better or there is no point. I hate to say this, but if I am being 100% truthful, the fact that a man is a Mason no longer equates in my heart to him being a 'good man' automatically. I am still open to the idea that he is a good man, but it's not automatic. I know all men are flawed, as am I, thats the human condition, but there is a moral and ethical line the good men with flaws will not cross. We have new tools available to us. We can do criminal searchs electronically, we can check with other jurisdictions to make sure a man has not been expelled from another Grand Lodge, and we can start viewing the investigation as something meant to weed out unqualified men, rather than something we just do out of routine. Once a man becomes a brother we can hold him accountable to a higher standard. I feel bad writing what I wrote, but I think we need to start having this conversation.
I think that you are correct, unaffordable Temples that never should have been built to the scale that they were, are what is driving many Masons to accept whatever man knocks on the door.
If a Temple is unaffordable, the Lodge should look at turning it into a profit generating event space. If that is impossible or doesn't work, the Lodge should sell it. A Lodge does not need to own a Masonic Temple.
It is absurd that Lodges will allow their Temple to bankrupt the Lodge, and it is absurd for Lodges to believe that initiating an unsuitable man will somehow save the Temple. Yet far too often, those are the case.
At least in Washington, the number of suspension letters that go out are clear proof that we are not doing nearly enough to guard our West Gate.