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Wilson Gonzalez's avatar

I share your view on AC to a certain point. He was a brilliant mind, unfortunately he was walking the wrong path.

His case is one of "be mindful of the messenger too".

I'm of the belief that the message is more important than the messenger, but sometimes the messenger has a lot to do with message. Thats why we always has to be cautious.

I disagree on the first tenet; "do what thou will". Thats glorification of the ego.

Cameron M. Bailey's avatar

III:60 "There is no law beyond Do what thou wilt."

In my view, that doesn't mean 'do whatever the hell you want regardless of its impacts on self or others.' In my view, reading it in context, I see it as something more akin to: 'Everyone was created for a purpose, every life has meaning, and it is our duty to figure out what that purpose is for us as individuals, then do it. That is the point of life, and leads to a well lived life.'

That's it, in my view, in a quick nutshell anyway. Of course it would take a great deal more to give it a full treatment.

I also find the other two verses I included in the post to be limitations of a sort on the verse above:

I-57: "Love is the law, love under will."

Love is a force. Likely the most powerful force we as individuals have to command. But like all forces, it is blind, it can be destructive or constructive. We have a duty to harness it so that it might be used to help achieve our will. In other words we can be a positive or a negative to our nuclear and extended families. If we properly harness and use love, we can be positive in the lives of those around us. But if we don't harness it, love, passions, can lead us to cause destruction in the lives of those closest to us.

I-3: "Every man and every woman is a star."

If everyone knew their true (divine?) purpose in life, and did nothing but pursue that purpose, there would be no conflict between people for we would all orbit around and with each other, without collision, as is seen in the stars. In our own pursuit of life we cannot violate the lives or rights of others, for by doing so we are preventing them from exercising their own duty under "There is no law beyond Do what thou wilt."

In any event, that is my quick, nutshell view of it, as someone from the outside looking in.

Wilson Gonzalez's avatar

"Everyone is created for a purpose" yes. But not everyone is willing to follow that purpose. Like Jonah in the Bible, God commands him to go to Niniveh, lastly he went unwillingly.

Even Jesus, when praying in the garden said: "However, not my will but your will must be done."

Cameron M. Bailey's avatar

>>>"Everyone is created for a purpose" yes. But not everyone is willing to follow >>>that purpose.

Agreed.

Gregory Brown - PM's avatar

PGM Bailey, this was an interesting article. I am a Pastor Master of a Masonic Lodge in NY, that was located close to Hill Comorah (where Joseph Smith said an Angel gave him the basis of the "Book of Mormon")? Some believe that he was giving a "secret sign of distress" when he was shot dead?

He was a "messenger" whose messages linger on. Thanks for your messages about Masonic "messengers"!

Glenn Geiss's avatar

From my understanding, Joseph Smith was a Master Mason. The Mormon Temple garments contains at least one Masonic Symbol (The square).

Clayton M. M. La Vigne's avatar

Smith was a Master Mason. Thinking of Nauvoo, Illinois for this one.

Cameron M. Bailey's avatar

Yes. Somewhere here I have a book that explores his Masonic ties in great detail.

Cameron M. Bailey's avatar

Some years ago Centralia Lodge was contacted by a non-Mason who wanted to sit down with someone from the Lodge because he had found out that his Church had some practices similar to those of Freemasonry, and he felt the need to discuss it.

I ended up sitting down with him. In the end, I believe that he was going through a crisis of faith, but I think having the opportunity to be able to ask about our Craft, and get honest answers back was probably helpful to him.

Robert Mullis's avatar

After Smith and his followers were expelled Missouri. They went on to create their own Masonic Lodge in a town he founded. Nauvoo was a town founded by Smiths group.

The Lodge minutes can be found here: Minutes, 15–16 March 1842, p. 14,

The Joseph Smith Papers, accessed April 12, 2025, https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/minutes-15-16-march-1842/2

A Brother I know was a Mormon for a while. After Taking the York Rite degrees he noted how very closely the orders of priesthood in the church and the York Rite Degrees were. After the YR festival he said, I quote. "The LDS Church just stole these rituals from Freemasonry". He began doing research on the history of the church and later withdrew from the church.

I don't say this with the purpose of dissuading any one's faith in the LDS movement. I have many LDS friends who I believe to be good people. The culture of the Church from the outside looking in appears to be honorable and family oriented. But It is quite evident to me and several scholars that at least much of the framework of the rituals that they use were taken directly from the ritual of the orders found in Freemasonry. Keeping in mind in 1840 Freemasonry was on an upswing return to prominence following the Anti masonic parties successful attack using the morgan affair as a catalyst.

Interestingly enough Joseph Smith married or was "sealed" William Morgans ex-wife "Lucinda Pendleton" in 1846 after she and her husband Harris joined Morgan in Nauvoo. I'll leave the mystery of solving morgan's disappearance to the scholars and you as all of the evidence for his death, his going back to sea and ending up in Nassau where he may have formed a masonic Lodge, or started another life under another name lack any clear evidence.

Robert Mullis's avatar

The Grand College of Rites, was formed to capture and own many of the fraternal masonic orders that were considered defunct in 1932. One of the reasons is to prevent their nefarious use. many cults and conmen used Masonic orders for legitimacy. Any mason can sign up for membership. They send out Book Publications annually of the rituals of the collections of orders and degrees as part of the membership.

https://grandcollegeofrites.org/history/

Cameron M. Bailey's avatar

Yes indeed, he was a powerful messenger who ended up creating quite an extraordinary movement! I know some truly wonderful Masons who are members of the Church he created today.

I've read some stories about his murder that do indicate that he gave that sign at the end. But I don't know if they are sensationalized.

Mike Priddy's avatar

Good question. I have no answer. Every time I think I am landing on a response, it falls apart. I guess like everything else, it depends and requires thought. Concerning our pal Al, well, be careful with him. He has amazing things to say, and is not above messing with you.

Cameron M. Bailey's avatar

No one would believe it looking at my fat ass today, but as a young feller I was fit, and I climbed mountains. That's where I first encountered our pal Al. Reading about his climbing exploits, as he was world class at it in his time. It was only later that I learned about the stuff he is largely famous for.

Mike Priddy's avatar

I too was once thin and in shape, and climbed mountains. Yeah, he was an accomplished guy, climber, explorer, poet, and I think his family owned a brewery?

Cameron M. Bailey's avatar

Ah, the family had a really cool thing going! They had a huge chain of these little 'luncheonette' places where one could get a sandwich and a beer at a reasonable price in a convenient location. I believe that they did brew their own beer for that. I think that it was quite an empire, for a time.

Warren Baxter's avatar

After reading this, what comes to my mind is that we should be quick to process and understand things from multiple perceptions, but cautious and deliberate in our conclusions and actions. This approach promotes a more balanced and nuanced view on messeges and messengers. Like you, I am a fan of Albert Pike. The rebel flag holds a different perspective to me than what cancel culture paints it, being of Scottish and Seminole descent. As far as Crowley, I really am drawn to the verses about him in Black Sabbaths song 'Mr. Crowley.' It has a great perspective if his works. He also played a huge influence on Led Zeppelin. Robert plant bought his home. Page referred to Crowly as a misunderstood genius.

Clayton M. M. La Vigne's avatar

I know I digress, but I thought Page bought Crowley's house...

Warren Baxter's avatar

You are right, I mistook the wrong guy. 🫣

Glenn Geiss's avatar

Jimmy Page bought The house: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boleskine_House

The Song "Mr. Crowley" was by Ozzy Osbourne, not Black Sabbath.

Cameron M. Bailey's avatar

Gave it a listen this morning. I'm a very lucky guy because there is an awesome classic rock station just to the south of me in Castle Rock.

Clayton M. M. La Vigne's avatar

107.1 FM, baby. The Rocket 107 FM.

Cameron M. Bailey's avatar

A friggin' awesome radio station! When I moved down here I was afraid that I'd lose good radio as the Seattle stations don't reach very well, but the Rocket has me covered!

Of course in the car we have the satellite radio, but in my view it's more trouble than it's worth. Heading to the GL Office there are a couple dead spots on I-5, and then a couple more between Stilicoom and University Place.

Warren Baxter's avatar

Geeesh, i was wrong twice. Good call. I would not be a good contestant on Jeopardy.

Cameron M. Bailey's avatar

To my mind we tend to err when we see things too simplistically. Why did Pike put on a confederate uniform? Probably a lot more reasons than the single one that pops into most people's minds. The debate over state vs federal rights had raged since the very signing of the Constitution.

Likewise I think with Crowley. I don't think that he was nearly as 'evil' as people think he was.

Indeed, I think the vast majority of that 'evil' was an act of sorts. His way of reveling in the spotlight, and his mistaken view that it would help spread his message. Ultimately, his behaviors and publicity badly harmed instead of helped the spread of his ideas.

And of course, it ended up creating a sort of cult around those ideas.

Here's a fellow advocating a philosophy/system/religion that teaches as complete of individuality as is humanly possible, and at the same time creating a class system of books for that with a rigidity only dreamed of by the old Roman Catholic censors.

Clayton M. M. La Vigne's avatar

Cameron, this topic angers me to no end.

I’ve run across so many people, after I mention to them a good idea, they confirm it’s a good idea, but once they find out where I got the idea from, all of a sudden it’s a bad idea.

It has gotten to the point where I am reticent when someone asks me where I got an idea from, particularly when I reveal that it was someone else’s idea. As per a lesson in a York Rite degree, I do mention that I received an idea from someone else, and if I did come up with an idea on my own (like those times you wake up at 2:00 AM with that light bulb moment) then I’ll not volunteer it, but tell them the truth if asked. But there are times where people, whether it be Masonic Brothers, family members, or even business customers, will ask for where I got information, an idea, or a concept, and I know the person doesn’t see eye to eye with the person I was talking with earlier. And at times I’ll call out that person.

“Where did you hear that idea?”

“I’d tell you, but I know you’ll change your mind if I tell you…”

“Just tell me!”

“Okay, it was so-and-so.”

“You mean that butthead? He’s more full of crap than a Christmas goose! That’s a dumb idea, don’t listen to him!”

“But you just said it was a good idea a few minutes ago…”

And then the person gets really mad after that. And it shouldn’t be that way. Just because you don’t agree or like a person doesn’t mean they can’t come up with a nugget of wisdom.

This problem is WAAAAAY too common. And even further, we really need to look in the mirror to ensure that we ourselves are not part of the problem. Or to admonish our Brothers who we find making such judgements. Yet another way that Freemasonry can help our good men become better through iron sharpening iron (Proverbs 27:17).

Dean Willard's avatar

I believe I know who you have these conversations with my brother. I can hear his voice expressing these "Texasisms" in my head. Be careful. ;-)

Clayton M. M. La Vigne's avatar

Ironically, who you’re thinking about wasn’t who I was thinking about when I made the comment! But now that you mention it, I can once again bring up that Biblical Proverb 27:17, and it has helped us both in this regard. Perhaps this is why I wasn’t thinking about him. So from that standpoint, that’s a good story.

I was thinking more at the local level, my home town and county, when I made this comment.

But unfortunately, we have other Brothers, as well as others that we know about, who are still guilty of doing this. This goes back to a comment I made earlier about people who you admonish or even scold to help them adjust and change their bad habits, only for those people to revert to those old, bad habits in the long run. It can be frustrating. You never want to be the person that others have to “work around” to achieve progress and success.

Cameron M. Bailey's avatar

>>>You never want to be the person that others have to “work around” to achieve >>>progress and success

Now this is a good point to live by!

Cameron M. Bailey's avatar

Don't tell those good Washington Brothers who have moved here from Texas, but I think that maybe if you want to see Texas, you have to go to Oklahoma. I've spent a fair amount of time around Dallas, Fort Worth, Houston, and don't remember seeing any more boots & hats than I do in Seattle. Oklahoma though, hats and boots everywhere! Big steaks too!

Now I'll go hide, having stirred the hornets nest! 🤠😂😎🤠

Glenn Geiss's avatar

Look at a voting map of Texas, every major urban area is blue. If you want to see boots and cowboy hats, you have to leave the cities. I continue to predicts that all states, at some point, will turn blue, simply because of urbanization. That goes for Texas too. As the cities continue to grow in population, liberal politics will take over. In Washington, two counties run the entire state. At one time, Washington was a leave us the hell alone state. Did you know we were the first state to allow concealed carry codified in law? 1961. Long before Florida came along in 1986(?) started that movement. We’ve been a shall issue state for decades, and is one of the last remaining remnants of who we used to be.

Cameron M. Bailey's avatar

The fundamental problem in Washington, to my mind, is just what you point out. The urban core from Everett to Tacoma has enough voters that the entire rest of the State is drowned out. These are the most urban, and most affluent voters, with needs quite different from the needs of people elsewhere in the State.

The Federal Government has a truly bicameral Legislative body, in that the House is elected via population, and the Senate is elected via area. So urban and largely affluent people have a voice, and rural less affluent people have a voice as well.

Our State Legislature used to be the same way. With the House elected via population, and the Senate elected via area (counties.)

But, a Supreme Court case ruled that form of the Senate unconstitutional, even though it is a simple reflection of our national Legislative body. So now we only have the appearance of a bicameral Legislature. In actual fact, despite pretended difference between the makeup of the House and Senate, the House Members from any given district are elected by the exact same voters as the Senator from that district. No more, no less.

That is what has allowed the urban core from Everett to Tacoma dominate the entirety of the State. And that Supreme Court case is what needs to change if we are going to see rural voters have a voice here again.

Cameron M. Bailey's avatar

Yes, I think that this is super common. If Trump and Obama did deliver the exact same message, using the exact same words, most people would hear that message differently from man to man.

It's goofy as hell, but I fear that we all have a tendency to do it.

The trick in my mind is to recognize that tendency, and strive to overcome it. Otherwise we get caught in echo chambers of our own making.

Bob Brockman's avatar

Messages, in and of themselves, are only information. For me, the validity of a message is weighed upon the messenger. If I feel the messenger lacks integrity, I’ll look at the message more critically. It doesn’t mean the message isn’t important or that something can’t be learned. We should read books like The Book of Laws if we hope to have coherent conversations about controversial topics such as this. I’ve not read the book, and to be honest, don’t believe I’d heard of it until today. I have heard of AC and so, if I were to read it, I would do so with a critical eye, hoping to learn something or at least be able to talk about it.

Cameron M. Bailey's avatar

That seems like a good approach. Read more critically if the messenger is a negative, but don't dismiss out of hand.

Thanks for this!

TFPJ's avatar

When I was growing up my grandmother used to often use a saying: "Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater."

When I would talk about how bad some historical figure was, but that they had come up with some pretty good ideas. Thomas Jefferson = Slave owner and Founding Father of the US; HP Lovecraft = Great Horror Writer and Horrible Bigot; she would oft repeat, "Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater."

I was deeply reminded of this while watching the movie "Stigmata" many years ago, when an atheist woman who becomes possessed by the spirit of a deceased Jesuit priest says toward the end of the movie, "il messaggero non e importante."

The messenger is not important.

Einstein could have been a mass murderer. It would have made his discoveries in physics no less important to the modern world.

Wernher von Braun's rockets and technology killed thousands, yet but for his work, the US Space Program and missile defense technologies would not be where they are today.

The bathwater will always be dirty. We can find something undesirable in every messenger. But sometimes the message (the baby) shouldn't be disposed of with the messenger (the bathwater).

Chad's avatar

Brother, I find in my limited experience and perception that writings like a mosaic or a tapestry are inextricably linked and bound as a piece of a larger whole. I think that we as Mason's benefit from considering the merits and detriments of a stance, irrespective of what side of our individually subjective lines it may fall. I think if we as Mason's, or society at large, fail to consider all possibilities it will be to our ruin.

If we fail to learn from something purely based on the comfort of the subject, or its source then we fail to learn from them. The quote that comes most to mind is, "Those that fail to learn from history, are doomed to repeat it". The problem is, all too often we forget. Until the next "never forget" or "never again" occurs.

Though Sun Tzu made some excellent points of his own.

I think that if we wait for a compilation of teachings from one who has lived a perfect life we may be here a while or have a very limited library at best.

I wonder if this was the reason that some of the greatest philosophers and writers chose to use pseudonyms. Preventing their works being tainted by their own shortcomings, failings, or societal perceptions.