I too am a Lodge Secretary and enjoy the tools provided by Grandview. However, in my previous life I learned a difficult lesson that may be useful to the Craft. In a contract for records management, we had a contractual agreement that our data would remain the agency's if the relationship was ended between the parties. Like all things, the relationship ended. Since we did not specify how the data would be provided to us, we had some challenges accessing the records. We eventually did access the data and moved on, lesson learned. A cautionary tale that I hope Craft leadership considers and takes steps in the look term to preserve our records. In the meantime, I maintain the paper files and our Lodge follows a destruction or purging schedule outlined in state statute.
Thank you for this really important reminder. There are a lot of benefits to outsourcing but we have to remember that someday we might need to bring it back home, or move it.
I've thought about that quite a bit here with Substack. Part of the agreement with them is that I own all my stuff, and can take it with me at will. But who knows how hard that would be, or even how it would come back to me. I presume that the subscriber database would come easily and be easily moved, and the GL of Oregon is graciously keeping archives of the posts, but I do worry about what would happen to things like these comment sections, the Chats &c.
Cloud based storage, especially anything related to a database, is extremely expensive. I'm curious if the pricing model is going to change significantly. There are so many different factors when trying to figure out costs associated with a database. They charge based on storage, processing time (transactions), licensing, etc. This also doesn't include the human costs in the development and maintenance of the database and front end.
As Ric mentioned, if there are problems down the road, how to extract the data held within grandview if push came to shove, on top of setting up a system to access it, could be a real headache. That's the danger of outsourcing your CMS to a third party. Mind you, grandview is leaps and bounds better than what we used to have.
It will be interesting to see if pricing changes, but I don't imagine it really will. Ultimately, the new Grand Lodge owners will face all the same costs as the private ownership did, so I can't imagine costs could fall. But, I also don't see them likely rising (beyond what is needed for inflation and such) because I can't see the GL's in the ownership group wanting to do anything to harm their neighbors.
Fantastic news. I was not a fan of Grandview for exactly the reason you indicate. Having someone not us controlling our data did not seem wise. Glad to hear that's not a concern any longer.
Approximately ten years ago, I passionately appealed to our Masonic research body within AMD, urging them not to completely abandon paper annuals, particularly for record-keeping purposes. The distribution of paper records among a broad group has proven to be an invaluable method for archiving transactional records through the distribution of annuals and other documents. Transitioning exclusively to digital media poses significant risks to the preservation of our records. Digital-only archives are vulnerable to subscription models, where records may be destroyed if subscriptions are not maintained. Moreover, as we have observed in my jurisdiction, a single uninformed decision not to migrate historical data into new systems can obliterate decades of Masonic transactional history.
I earnestly implore everyone to ensure that there is a reliable archival method for preserving transactional records. Failing to do so disadvantages future historians and undermines the integrity of our record-keeping. I fear that our generation may be remembered as the dark ages of documentation due to our growing reliance on disposable records and digital storage solutions driven by cost-saving motives. Let us not erase our generation from the annals of history.
i stood as they were talking about doing away with them on the floor of an annual meeting and was nearly laughed out of the room. its something no one is thinking about apparently. I suppose 100 years from now, word will still exist, and digital archives will still function. But who knows.
People think that .pdf's or whatever on the cloud or posted on a website will live forever, but that just isn't true.
Indeed we just saw that last month, when Paramount wiped the archives of Comedy Central, TV Land, MTV News, and CMT due to financial struggles. 25 years of original content, suddenly gone.
Paper copies are important. If they are widely distributed they can last potentially forever. Lacking that, properly stored is the next best thing. That's why I was so thrilled when the GL of Oregon decided to hold physical (and digital) copies of Emeth. Otherwise, Substack could go broke tomorrow, and everything here could be lost.
In Ohio we use Grandview extensively. This is very good news indeed!
Here in Washington too. It has proven to be a superb tool, and we have everything imaginable up on it now.
I too am a Lodge Secretary and enjoy the tools provided by Grandview. However, in my previous life I learned a difficult lesson that may be useful to the Craft. In a contract for records management, we had a contractual agreement that our data would remain the agency's if the relationship was ended between the parties. Like all things, the relationship ended. Since we did not specify how the data would be provided to us, we had some challenges accessing the records. We eventually did access the data and moved on, lesson learned. A cautionary tale that I hope Craft leadership considers and takes steps in the look term to preserve our records. In the meantime, I maintain the paper files and our Lodge follows a destruction or purging schedule outlined in state statute.
Thank you for this really important reminder. There are a lot of benefits to outsourcing but we have to remember that someday we might need to bring it back home, or move it.
I've thought about that quite a bit here with Substack. Part of the agreement with them is that I own all my stuff, and can take it with me at will. But who knows how hard that would be, or even how it would come back to me. I presume that the subscriber database would come easily and be easily moved, and the GL of Oregon is graciously keeping archives of the posts, but I do worry about what would happen to things like these comment sections, the Chats &c.
Great news!!
Cloud based storage, especially anything related to a database, is extremely expensive. I'm curious if the pricing model is going to change significantly. There are so many different factors when trying to figure out costs associated with a database. They charge based on storage, processing time (transactions), licensing, etc. This also doesn't include the human costs in the development and maintenance of the database and front end.
As Ric mentioned, if there are problems down the road, how to extract the data held within grandview if push came to shove, on top of setting up a system to access it, could be a real headache. That's the danger of outsourcing your CMS to a third party. Mind you, grandview is leaps and bounds better than what we used to have.
It will be interesting to see if pricing changes, but I don't imagine it really will. Ultimately, the new Grand Lodge owners will face all the same costs as the private ownership did, so I can't imagine costs could fall. But, I also don't see them likely rising (beyond what is needed for inflation and such) because I can't see the GL's in the ownership group wanting to do anything to harm their neighbors.
But, I suppose that only time can tell.
Fantastic news. I was not a fan of Grandview for exactly the reason you indicate. Having someone not us controlling our data did not seem wise. Glad to hear that's not a concern any longer.
Agreed. I think that we are orders of magnitude safer now that Grandview is owned by Grand Lodges.
Approximately ten years ago, I passionately appealed to our Masonic research body within AMD, urging them not to completely abandon paper annuals, particularly for record-keeping purposes. The distribution of paper records among a broad group has proven to be an invaluable method for archiving transactional records through the distribution of annuals and other documents. Transitioning exclusively to digital media poses significant risks to the preservation of our records. Digital-only archives are vulnerable to subscription models, where records may be destroyed if subscriptions are not maintained. Moreover, as we have observed in my jurisdiction, a single uninformed decision not to migrate historical data into new systems can obliterate decades of Masonic transactional history.
I earnestly implore everyone to ensure that there is a reliable archival method for preserving transactional records. Failing to do so disadvantages future historians and undermines the integrity of our record-keeping. I fear that our generation may be remembered as the dark ages of documentation due to our growing reliance on disposable records and digital storage solutions driven by cost-saving motives. Let us not erase our generation from the annals of history.
i stood as they were talking about doing away with them on the floor of an annual meeting and was nearly laughed out of the room. its something no one is thinking about apparently. I suppose 100 years from now, word will still exist, and digital archives will still function. But who knows.
I think that you are 100% correct.
People think that .pdf's or whatever on the cloud or posted on a website will live forever, but that just isn't true.
Indeed we just saw that last month, when Paramount wiped the archives of Comedy Central, TV Land, MTV News, and CMT due to financial struggles. 25 years of original content, suddenly gone.
Paper copies are important. If they are widely distributed they can last potentially forever. Lacking that, properly stored is the next best thing. That's why I was so thrilled when the GL of Oregon decided to hold physical (and digital) copies of Emeth. Otherwise, Substack could go broke tomorrow, and everything here could be lost.
Related:
https://classicalideals.substack.com/p/print-this-post-the-anxiety-of-remembering