The Washington Masonic Code makes it clear that there is no right of visitation. An objection to any visitor to any Lodge can be entertained and upheld. I presume that similar policies exist in most Jurisdictions.
When I first became a Mason, there wasn’t much to this objection process. If a member objected to a visitor, that visitor wasn’t allowed to sit in the Lodge. Now it’s a bit more complex, and a single member can’t have a sole veto over a visitor. But the idea remains the same. A visitor can be objected to, and if that objection is upheld, the visitor can’t sit in Lodge.
This right to objection exists here, but despite attending vast numbers of Lodge meetings through the years, all across my Jurisdiction, I’ve never actually seen an objection made.
That brings up some interesting questions…
Under what circumstances would it be proper and right to object to a visitor to your Lodge?
Can you see any circumstance in which you would object to a visitor?
Could an objection preserve harmony in some cases? If so, what would those cases be?
Or is objecting to a visitor always the wrong course of action to take?
We do accept visitors at any meeting, with only one exception. If in that meeting an important issue, that only pertain to the lodge, is going to be discuss then the visitors will be escorted out until the matter has been talked about.
Agreed, I would not have any issue if the Master of a Lodge I’m visiting asked me and other visitors to retire to the Tyler’s room, etc. so the Lodge can handle an internal affair that has to be done in a Stated Communication.
In fact, there was a situation where I and a few others were visiting a Lodge, and the Master did not have us leave. Instead, he did a serious and embarrassing admonishment to the members of his Lodge in front of us, then told all of us that what he did is NOT to leave this room under any circumstances. I had carpooled with one of the visitors, who was a long-time Past Master from ours and another Jurisdiction, and the meeting left me highly embarrassed, and the Past Master was completely livid over the situation. I got an earful on the way home about how poorly their matter was handled, and that the Master should have asked us to retire to the Tyler’s room temporarily while they handled the matter, then asked us to rejoin them. I agreed. It was a good lesson to learn.
It's been almost 20 years since that meeting happened, and I still can’t bring it up with that old Past Master (who is still with us.) It will rile him up to this very day.
This is an interesting topic. About 5-6 years ago my mother lodge was celebrating its 100th birthday. The Grand Master that year was not a very popular Mason and had offended several of the members of the Lodge. The Master of the Lodge mentioned that an invitation was going to be sent to the Grand Master to attend the Centennial Meeting. Five Brothers (myself included) rose to object to inviting the Grand Master. We all agreed that it was still the Masters call, but we would not be attending that ceremony. I had a discussion after the lodge closed with the Master of the Lodge, he declared he was inviting the Grand Master of the day as was his prerogative and he did. The 5 members of the lodge did not attend the centennial meeting of their own lodge and the lodge ended up loosing 5 active members who requested demits that year. The membership went from 40 to 35 members and now 5 years later it has about 20 members. Of the 5 that took demits 3 joined another lodge, I left the Grand Lodge and am in a different Grand Lodge on a bordering State, and one Brother left the Craft completely! Arrogant & bigoted Grand Masters or anyone in a position of authority can ruin our beautiful Craft! The security & peace I used to feel in my “Mother Lodge” has vanished and I have not set foot in the building ever since. Peace & harmony must prevail in Lodge. If one cannot sit in lodge with another Mason and they cannot resolve their differences it’s far better to not attend and stay home! Unfortunately the Lodge suffers. I do attend Lodges in my city but I do not and will not attend my mother Lodge. I do not feel the welcome there anymore! The Master chose the Grand Master of the Day to 5 of his members and the Lodge took the loss of those members.
A poor Grand Master, like a poor Master can do a tremendous amount of damage over the course of one short year. The only real difference is the damage a poor Worshipful Master does is contained, a GM can spread poison throughout a Jurisdiction. We can see examples of this happening from time to time in Masonic news sites like Freemasons for Dummies.
We've got to do all we can to try and assure that the men we elect to the East are appropriate for the job. Often we succeed, but sometimes we fail in that, and when we do fail, the damage can be extreme.
That makes sense to me. But, it is something that doesn't come up here because here Lodges don't conduct Masonic Trials. A Lodge can proffer Charges, but the Trial is done by the Grand Lodge.
Didn't a lodge in our (Washington) jurisdiction ( I won't say who) try to deny their own District Deputy from entering their lodge a few years back?
Honestly, while as others here have mentioned there are circumstances where visitors can be politely barred from a lodge, I can't personally see a reason why I would refuse to sit in lodge with anyone. I could be sitting next to my own worst enemy, but I will be still courteous and professional about it. Peace and Harmony prevailing. I guess from my military background, where I've had to work with people from all walks of life, we all learned to get along regardless of how we personally felt towards each other.
That was the story I was going to bring up. But my story goes back a little over 25 years.
I had just joined, and my uncle and I went to a neighboring Lodge just for visitation. We came into the lobby, and I saw the District Deputy (whom I had known since before I became a Mason,) and I gave a small-talk greeting, only to be answered with a scowl and an angry bark. I kind of went whoa and backed off, and that was that, and throughout the meeting, the Worshipful Master continued with his business, and he said in between sections of business, “well, we’re supposed to have our official visit this evening, but since it looks like that’s not happening, let’s move on to…” He did that about 4-5 times. The meeting concluded with no issues, but the next meeting was to be a degree (I can’t remember which one anymore.)
We decided to show up to the degree. This time, a handful of old Past Masters from the 1950’s and 1960’s showed up, as well as several Grand Lodge officers, including the Grand Master. The lodge opened on the MM Degree, and the Worshipful Master did all the introductions, all the way up to the Grand Master, and then the whole bunch headed west of the altar to be signed out. The Worshipful Master handed the gavel to the Worshipful Master of my Lodge (who was visiting,) and he told him to confer the degree and run the meeting. Norm looked at the gavel, totally caught off guard. The WM of the Lodge said, “Well, are you going to sign us out???” Norm got up to the East and signed everyone out, then they headed to the dining room and locked the door behind them. Norm conferred the degree off the top of his head, and he did fairly well.
It turned out that a scrum had developed between a member of that Lodge and the District Deputy, and when the Deputy showed up, the member objected. However, that meeting was the Deputy’s Official Visit. Therefore, barring the Deputy on his Official Visit was essentially barring the Grand Master from the meeting. This put the Worshipful Master in a real bind. Allowing the Deputy in to attend the meeting would have been a violation of the Code (at that time, it has changed since then,) but following the Code was barring the Grand Master from attending the Lodge, in essence. There was no third option, so the Master decided to follow the Code. The Grand Master showed up to have the Master explain the situation and defend his decision. The Charter was saved, as the Master made the right decision. The Deputy wound up resigning a few months later, although I am uncertain if that was the reason.
I don't think it's the story you're thinking of, though. Which means this situation has happened more than once in the last quarter Century.
I'm not sure if it's the same story as what I was told a few years ago. Granted what I was told was 3rd hand knowledge, so it might be way off, but it was much more recent (within the last 10 years).
I can see how the codes changes were necessary to help prevent occurrences like that from happening in the future.
I'm like you. I'd sit in Lodge and be courteous. I'm not so vain as to think that every Mason likes me, indeed I know at least three who really don't like me, and in those cases, the feeling is mutual. But I'd still sit in Lodge with them, and I wouldn't object to their visiting my Lodge.
Sometimes feelings get hurt and people get mad. But, also, sometimes those hurts and anger can be healed with time. And that seems like a good thing to allow to happen.
I have in the past objected to a visitor when it was clear no one in the lodge had any idea who the person was, but no one wanted to challenge the person and make them feel unwelcome. The visitor was removed from Lodge, properly tried and either returned to Lodge or not based on that outcome. Sometimes we can be too friendly 😁
Interesting. I didn't think of that circumstance when posing the question, but you are right on.
When I visit Lodges, I try to take someone with me. Both because I think traveling is an important way to learn more about Masonry and Lodge management, but also because its more fun to travel with others.
But on lots and lots of occasions, I'll know that the Brother with me hasn't ever sat with anyone in the Lodge we are visiting, yet I see the Deacon walk right by him without a challenge.
We do accept visitors at any meeting, with only one exception. If in that meeting an important issue, that only pertain to the lodge, is going to be discuss then the visitors will be escorted out until the matter has been talked about.
Agreed, I would not have any issue if the Master of a Lodge I’m visiting asked me and other visitors to retire to the Tyler’s room, etc. so the Lodge can handle an internal affair that has to be done in a Stated Communication.
In fact, there was a situation where I and a few others were visiting a Lodge, and the Master did not have us leave. Instead, he did a serious and embarrassing admonishment to the members of his Lodge in front of us, then told all of us that what he did is NOT to leave this room under any circumstances. I had carpooled with one of the visitors, who was a long-time Past Master from ours and another Jurisdiction, and the meeting left me highly embarrassed, and the Past Master was completely livid over the situation. I got an earful on the way home about how poorly their matter was handled, and that the Master should have asked us to retire to the Tyler’s room temporarily while they handled the matter, then asked us to rejoin them. I agreed. It was a good lesson to learn.
It's been almost 20 years since that meeting happened, and I still can’t bring it up with that old Past Master (who is still with us.) It will rile him up to this very day.
I never heard that story, sounds juicy!
That seems like a good and practical solution.
This is an interesting topic. About 5-6 years ago my mother lodge was celebrating its 100th birthday. The Grand Master that year was not a very popular Mason and had offended several of the members of the Lodge. The Master of the Lodge mentioned that an invitation was going to be sent to the Grand Master to attend the Centennial Meeting. Five Brothers (myself included) rose to object to inviting the Grand Master. We all agreed that it was still the Masters call, but we would not be attending that ceremony. I had a discussion after the lodge closed with the Master of the Lodge, he declared he was inviting the Grand Master of the day as was his prerogative and he did. The 5 members of the lodge did not attend the centennial meeting of their own lodge and the lodge ended up loosing 5 active members who requested demits that year. The membership went from 40 to 35 members and now 5 years later it has about 20 members. Of the 5 that took demits 3 joined another lodge, I left the Grand Lodge and am in a different Grand Lodge on a bordering State, and one Brother left the Craft completely! Arrogant & bigoted Grand Masters or anyone in a position of authority can ruin our beautiful Craft! The security & peace I used to feel in my “Mother Lodge” has vanished and I have not set foot in the building ever since. Peace & harmony must prevail in Lodge. If one cannot sit in lodge with another Mason and they cannot resolve their differences it’s far better to not attend and stay home! Unfortunately the Lodge suffers. I do attend Lodges in my city but I do not and will not attend my mother Lodge. I do not feel the welcome there anymore! The Master chose the Grand Master of the Day to 5 of his members and the Lodge took the loss of those members.
A poor Grand Master, like a poor Master can do a tremendous amount of damage over the course of one short year. The only real difference is the damage a poor Worshipful Master does is contained, a GM can spread poison throughout a Jurisdiction. We can see examples of this happening from time to time in Masonic news sites like Freemasons for Dummies.
We've got to do all we can to try and assure that the men we elect to the East are appropriate for the job. Often we succeed, but sometimes we fail in that, and when we do fail, the damage can be extreme.
We allow a single
Member to object to visitation. That said, the lodge does not accept visitors at Masonic
trials due to it being no one else’s business.
That makes sense to me. But, it is something that doesn't come up here because here Lodges don't conduct Masonic Trials. A Lodge can proffer Charges, but the Trial is done by the Grand Lodge.
Didn't a lodge in our (Washington) jurisdiction ( I won't say who) try to deny their own District Deputy from entering their lodge a few years back?
Honestly, while as others here have mentioned there are circumstances where visitors can be politely barred from a lodge, I can't personally see a reason why I would refuse to sit in lodge with anyone. I could be sitting next to my own worst enemy, but I will be still courteous and professional about it. Peace and Harmony prevailing. I guess from my military background, where I've had to work with people from all walks of life, we all learned to get along regardless of how we personally felt towards each other.
That was the story I was going to bring up. But my story goes back a little over 25 years.
I had just joined, and my uncle and I went to a neighboring Lodge just for visitation. We came into the lobby, and I saw the District Deputy (whom I had known since before I became a Mason,) and I gave a small-talk greeting, only to be answered with a scowl and an angry bark. I kind of went whoa and backed off, and that was that, and throughout the meeting, the Worshipful Master continued with his business, and he said in between sections of business, “well, we’re supposed to have our official visit this evening, but since it looks like that’s not happening, let’s move on to…” He did that about 4-5 times. The meeting concluded with no issues, but the next meeting was to be a degree (I can’t remember which one anymore.)
We decided to show up to the degree. This time, a handful of old Past Masters from the 1950’s and 1960’s showed up, as well as several Grand Lodge officers, including the Grand Master. The lodge opened on the MM Degree, and the Worshipful Master did all the introductions, all the way up to the Grand Master, and then the whole bunch headed west of the altar to be signed out. The Worshipful Master handed the gavel to the Worshipful Master of my Lodge (who was visiting,) and he told him to confer the degree and run the meeting. Norm looked at the gavel, totally caught off guard. The WM of the Lodge said, “Well, are you going to sign us out???” Norm got up to the East and signed everyone out, then they headed to the dining room and locked the door behind them. Norm conferred the degree off the top of his head, and he did fairly well.
It turned out that a scrum had developed between a member of that Lodge and the District Deputy, and when the Deputy showed up, the member objected. However, that meeting was the Deputy’s Official Visit. Therefore, barring the Deputy on his Official Visit was essentially barring the Grand Master from the meeting. This put the Worshipful Master in a real bind. Allowing the Deputy in to attend the meeting would have been a violation of the Code (at that time, it has changed since then,) but following the Code was barring the Grand Master from attending the Lodge, in essence. There was no third option, so the Master decided to follow the Code. The Grand Master showed up to have the Master explain the situation and defend his decision. The Charter was saved, as the Master made the right decision. The Deputy wound up resigning a few months later, although I am uncertain if that was the reason.
I don't think it's the story you're thinking of, though. Which means this situation has happened more than once in the last quarter Century.
Very interesting, thanks for sharing that.
I'm not sure if it's the same story as what I was told a few years ago. Granted what I was told was 3rd hand knowledge, so it might be way off, but it was much more recent (within the last 10 years).
I can see how the codes changes were necessary to help prevent occurrences like that from happening in the future.
I'm like you. I'd sit in Lodge and be courteous. I'm not so vain as to think that every Mason likes me, indeed I know at least three who really don't like me, and in those cases, the feeling is mutual. But I'd still sit in Lodge with them, and I wouldn't object to their visiting my Lodge.
Sometimes feelings get hurt and people get mad. But, also, sometimes those hurts and anger can be healed with time. And that seems like a good thing to allow to happen.
I have in the past objected to a visitor when it was clear no one in the lodge had any idea who the person was, but no one wanted to challenge the person and make them feel unwelcome. The visitor was removed from Lodge, properly tried and either returned to Lodge or not based on that outcome. Sometimes we can be too friendly 😁
Interesting. I didn't think of that circumstance when posing the question, but you are right on.
When I visit Lodges, I try to take someone with me. Both because I think traveling is an important way to learn more about Masonry and Lodge management, but also because its more fun to travel with others.
But on lots and lots of occasions, I'll know that the Brother with me hasn't ever sat with anyone in the Lodge we are visiting, yet I see the Deacon walk right by him without a challenge.
Brought my wife to a nearby Lodge for dinner and a special lecture. After opening, we went off-session so the ladies could join us for the lecture.
But something else came up. The WM was upset about it.
So the Masons, members and visitors alike, got a lengthy scolding.
The ladies sat there baffled and embarrassed.
It made an impression. Probably not the one the WM meant.
Something to be said about tact.
A very odd situation. One has to wonder why he wouldn't have just waited until after the presentation and the non-Masons were excused.