My new laptop arrived this afternoon, so this is my first post with a new machine. We’ll see how it goes! Actually the keyboard is going to take a wee bit of getting used too. It’s stiffer than on my old Pixelbook.
“We do not assert that this legend (The Hiramic Legend) is true. We only know that it has come to us by tradition. At what time the legend of the death of Hiram took the place of the older legends in the mysteries of Persia, India, and Egypt, we have no information. Nor is it important for us to know. For Masonry is a succession of allegories, the mere vehicles of great lessons in morality and philosophy.”
The above quote is from Albert Pike's Magnum Opus. It communicates a belief, fairly widely held, that Freemasonry is a continuation of the Ancient Mysteries.
That it is just the current successor of those earlier Mysteries. That the lessons taught by it are the same lessons taught in the Ancient Mysteries, that those lessons have remained constant, only the details of the legend itself have changed.
Thank you Brother! I'm pleased that you are enjoying the topic. I know that it is all speculation, and that the truth may well be different for every Mason, but I too enjoy speculative discussions from time to time.
Absolutely. The Hiram character can be replaced by Persephone in the Eleusinian mysteries, Osiris in the Egyptians mysteries, Christ in Christianity, and so forth and so forth.
This is rather my view as well. Not as a direct transition from organization to organization, man to man, but as a picking up of a truly ancient tradition, clothed in a garb for an understanding of the time. In other words, I think that what is sought to be taught remains the same, only the fluff around that which is essential has changed.
The MM degree didn't make it's way into the fraternity until (I think) around 1726. Until that time, the highest degree was "A fellow of the craft". The legend of Hiram Abiff was created at that time. The entire point of the degree is the importance of Integrity.
The degrees of masonry make more than a few assertions that are, frankly, hogwash, but that's fine as they are made to simply make points.
I don't think that I can quite buy an assertion that the MM Degree didn't exist until a time after 1717. I say that because I think it is all too easy to miss nuance when looking back at a time so long ago, under the best of circumstances. But I also think that when it comes to early Freemasonry in the British Isles, the circumstances are far from ideal. It seems to me that the Grand Lodge we now know as UGLE was on a bit of a propaganda campaign.
Certainly we know for an absolute fact that speculative Freemasonry existed long before 1717, but 90 percent of Masons, or more, will assert that it was founded then, in London. Because the Grand Lodge implied those 'facts' for so long. Heck, I've even heard a Grand Master, here, assert the 1717 founding date for Freemasonry. But we know that Lodges existed prior to that first Grand Lodge. We also now know that some scholars are disputing the 1717 date, pegging it a few years later.
So, I think the whole thing is confused.
What makes the most sense to me is that there was a MM Degree (not necessarily as we know it today in our Preston/Webb work) but an MM Degree that was conferred on the Master of the Lodge. Much like we now confer the Past Master Degree on Worshipful Masters, and a PGM Degree on Grand Masters. Something rare, that later expanded to include everyone.
This is not without modern precedent, when the York Rite began conferring the Past Master Degree on all going through its system, PM or not.
Ultimately, I think we can only really know what the Lodges of the GL of London and Westminster were up to, but those Lodges were only a fraction of Freemasonry at the time, not the premier GL that UGLE was eventually to become.
You're probably correct that a version of the MM degree was probably around earlier, but I don't think it's some sort of traditional mystery passed down from antiquity.
Yes, I believe we are one of the current successors of the Western Mystical Tradition (WMT). No, I don’t believe we are in possession of our mysteries through a continuous intentional transmission of those mysteries from one organization to the next.
I have walked the entire spectrum on this question. At first glance I believed we MUST be the living incarnation of the ancient mystery schools, and somewhere there was a cabal of adepts responsible for the conscious transmission of that tradition. I mean it seems so obvious, our rituals, our customs, our legends, they all fall in line.
That ended for me, after years of research, reading, even travelling, and NOT finding one bread crumb of such a transmission. I found this uncomfortable as the elements of the WMT were present, clearly. It seemed more magical to believe that the WMT had manifested in Masonry without a transmission, than with it. Yet, the data I followed led me to the conclusion it did not happen.
So, how do I think it happened? I believe that if you took a random group of human beings, transported them to another planet, and allowed that group to evolve a society independently eventually that society would manifest something identifiable as the WMT. It’s in our genes. It’s part of who we are. Before the globalization of culture, we see secret societies, often expressing many similar beliefs, goals and modes of operations occurring around the world. It's part of being human. It’s something that emerges from our consciousness when we live in groups.
There is a whole science emerging on this subject, and its fascinating. The simplest example is the layout of a city. Regardless of culture, regardless of date, all human cities are laid out basically the same way. So much so that if you were to arrive in a city you have never visited, you could with confidence ask for the ‘business district’, the ‘city market’, or the ‘red light’ district. There is no law of physics or biology that requires these functions to be grouped in districts, yet they are. You will find relationships between the spatial distribution of functions that are common in all human cities. This is because we have hard wired in us a city layout that ‘just makes sense’.
Given the impulse in humans to have a mystical tradition, It is my opinion that our fraternal ancestors drifted slowly from operative to speculative work. They incorporated elements of the WMT as they encountered them, probably often from men initiated from those traditions, or who were aware of them. The blue print for this process emerges from human consciousness itself. The mythology developed is a story quilted from history, mythology and the creative writing that provides a necessary story to underpin our Fraternity’s existence. I think as we progress the story becomes less important, but the underlying message becomes more important.
Some years ago I spent a long day exploring a very old city in the Valley of Mexico. So old that it was ancient when the Aztec Empire rose to power.
The most fascinating part of that day, to me, was seeing some of our 'Masonic' symbolism plainly carved into the stone of the buildings, and the sacred places laid out in the same form as our Masonic Lodges.
So yes, from that I have to conclude that your theory is correct. Cultures without any contact can, and have, developed similar ideas and indeed similar symbolism to express those ideas.
Myths evolved with time. The reason for this is to accomodate the myth to the mental maturity of humanity at said moment. So in order to find an origin we need to look at the elements that compose the myth and then back track and look for similarities or posible links. Of course at some moment the evidence is not physical and live as a theory.
The Hiram legend gives us a clue of a possible egyptian background.
I think that you are undoubtedly correct that myths evolve to accommodate the capacity and understanding of mankind at the time. I think that largely holds true for locality as well. Eastern mysticism might not speak to one man, but Western may well, and vice versa. Were our mythology to remain unchanging forever it would indicate that mankind was stuck somehow, no longer evolving.
I believe that without the mysteries and history Masonrywould be like a ship without its propellers or ruder and going nowhere until evenyually the deep six. So I support the use of them.
Today’s discussion point iont he third degree ritual of great interest to me.
The Hiramic legend may be the essential part of today’s third degree -Master Mason. But it was not always so.
At the time of the formation of the Grand Lodge of London and Westminster there were only two degrees, Entered Apprentice and Fellow of the Craft. These degrees were in practice, for some time ,by the Operative Masons in Scotland.
Somewhere between 1710 and 1723 a third degree was being conferred in Scotland and then in 1726 a revised third degree was presented as a play in England. It is believed it was developed by Desagulier and friends after he visited Edinburgh Lodge #1 and observed their degrees.
We know from documents at the time (Rituals and lodge minutes) that the current third degree was formed by taking a part of the Fellowcraft degree and constructing the Hiram Legend around it.
These points are all disussed in my paper "How Part of the Fellowcraft Degree became the base for the Master Degree" in which I offered the following conclusion:
1. There was a third degree in existence and practiced in a Scottish lodge sometime between
1710 and 1723.
2. The main character was not Hiram Abiff and not known, but ( surmise) probably Noah.
3. Desaguliers and friends changed the main character from Noah to Hiram Abiff sometime
between 1725 and 1738.
4. The first ever presentation of the current third degree was put on in a theatre as a play and
not in a masonic lodge in 1726.
5. It is suggested, by Bro. Robert Cooper, that they replaced Noah by Hiram Abiff to avoid
trouble with the church because Noah 'belonged' to the Church whereas Hiram Abiff is a
masonic invention.
6. It has also been suggested that the Hiran Abiff legend was invented by jacobites and was
a represenatation of the exicution of the britisk King Charles 1 in 1649.
Thank you Brother! I'm pleased that you are enjoying the topic. I know that it is all speculation, and that the truth may well be different for every Mason, but I too enjoy speculative discussions from time to time.
Absolutely. The Hiram character can be replaced by Persephone in the Eleusinian mysteries, Osiris in the Egyptians mysteries, Christ in Christianity, and so forth and so forth.
This is rather my view as well. Not as a direct transition from organization to organization, man to man, but as a picking up of a truly ancient tradition, clothed in a garb for an understanding of the time. In other words, I think that what is sought to be taught remains the same, only the fluff around that which is essential has changed.
No.
The MM degree didn't make it's way into the fraternity until (I think) around 1726. Until that time, the highest degree was "A fellow of the craft". The legend of Hiram Abiff was created at that time. The entire point of the degree is the importance of Integrity.
The degrees of masonry make more than a few assertions that are, frankly, hogwash, but that's fine as they are made to simply make points.
I don't think that I can quite buy an assertion that the MM Degree didn't exist until a time after 1717. I say that because I think it is all too easy to miss nuance when looking back at a time so long ago, under the best of circumstances. But I also think that when it comes to early Freemasonry in the British Isles, the circumstances are far from ideal. It seems to me that the Grand Lodge we now know as UGLE was on a bit of a propaganda campaign.
Certainly we know for an absolute fact that speculative Freemasonry existed long before 1717, but 90 percent of Masons, or more, will assert that it was founded then, in London. Because the Grand Lodge implied those 'facts' for so long. Heck, I've even heard a Grand Master, here, assert the 1717 founding date for Freemasonry. But we know that Lodges existed prior to that first Grand Lodge. We also now know that some scholars are disputing the 1717 date, pegging it a few years later.
So, I think the whole thing is confused.
What makes the most sense to me is that there was a MM Degree (not necessarily as we know it today in our Preston/Webb work) but an MM Degree that was conferred on the Master of the Lodge. Much like we now confer the Past Master Degree on Worshipful Masters, and a PGM Degree on Grand Masters. Something rare, that later expanded to include everyone.
This is not without modern precedent, when the York Rite began conferring the Past Master Degree on all going through its system, PM or not.
Ultimately, I think we can only really know what the Lodges of the GL of London and Westminster were up to, but those Lodges were only a fraction of Freemasonry at the time, not the premier GL that UGLE was eventually to become.
You're probably correct that a version of the MM degree was probably around earlier, but I don't think it's some sort of traditional mystery passed down from antiquity.
Just remember that I base my opinion on absolutely zero fact or knowledge! ;-)
I'm only speculating, but it has always seemed to make sense to me that a Master of a Lodge would be considered a Master Mason in some way.
Oh my, this is a can of worms!
Yes, I believe we are one of the current successors of the Western Mystical Tradition (WMT). No, I don’t believe we are in possession of our mysteries through a continuous intentional transmission of those mysteries from one organization to the next.
I have walked the entire spectrum on this question. At first glance I believed we MUST be the living incarnation of the ancient mystery schools, and somewhere there was a cabal of adepts responsible for the conscious transmission of that tradition. I mean it seems so obvious, our rituals, our customs, our legends, they all fall in line.
That ended for me, after years of research, reading, even travelling, and NOT finding one bread crumb of such a transmission. I found this uncomfortable as the elements of the WMT were present, clearly. It seemed more magical to believe that the WMT had manifested in Masonry without a transmission, than with it. Yet, the data I followed led me to the conclusion it did not happen.
So, how do I think it happened? I believe that if you took a random group of human beings, transported them to another planet, and allowed that group to evolve a society independently eventually that society would manifest something identifiable as the WMT. It’s in our genes. It’s part of who we are. Before the globalization of culture, we see secret societies, often expressing many similar beliefs, goals and modes of operations occurring around the world. It's part of being human. It’s something that emerges from our consciousness when we live in groups.
There is a whole science emerging on this subject, and its fascinating. The simplest example is the layout of a city. Regardless of culture, regardless of date, all human cities are laid out basically the same way. So much so that if you were to arrive in a city you have never visited, you could with confidence ask for the ‘business district’, the ‘city market’, or the ‘red light’ district. There is no law of physics or biology that requires these functions to be grouped in districts, yet they are. You will find relationships between the spatial distribution of functions that are common in all human cities. This is because we have hard wired in us a city layout that ‘just makes sense’.
Given the impulse in humans to have a mystical tradition, It is my opinion that our fraternal ancestors drifted slowly from operative to speculative work. They incorporated elements of the WMT as they encountered them, probably often from men initiated from those traditions, or who were aware of them. The blue print for this process emerges from human consciousness itself. The mythology developed is a story quilted from history, mythology and the creative writing that provides a necessary story to underpin our Fraternity’s existence. I think as we progress the story becomes less important, but the underlying message becomes more important.
Some years ago I spent a long day exploring a very old city in the Valley of Mexico. So old that it was ancient when the Aztec Empire rose to power.
The most fascinating part of that day, to me, was seeing some of our 'Masonic' symbolism plainly carved into the stone of the buildings, and the sacred places laid out in the same form as our Masonic Lodges.
So yes, from that I have to conclude that your theory is correct. Cultures without any contact can, and have, developed similar ideas and indeed similar symbolism to express those ideas.
BTW, unrelated to the discussion. If any of you are at the Esoteric Conference next week, I'd love to meet you! in real life!
I'm very much looking forward to seeing you, and everyone else there! I hope that we have an excellent turnout of Masons!
Myths evolved with time. The reason for this is to accomodate the myth to the mental maturity of humanity at said moment. So in order to find an origin we need to look at the elements that compose the myth and then back track and look for similarities or posible links. Of course at some moment the evidence is not physical and live as a theory.
The Hiram legend gives us a clue of a possible egyptian background.
I think that you are undoubtedly correct that myths evolve to accommodate the capacity and understanding of mankind at the time. I think that largely holds true for locality as well. Eastern mysticism might not speak to one man, but Western may well, and vice versa. Were our mythology to remain unchanging forever it would indicate that mankind was stuck somehow, no longer evolving.
I believe that without the mysteries and history Masonrywould be like a ship without its propellers or ruder and going nowhere until evenyually the deep six. So I support the use of them.
Today’s discussion point iont he third degree ritual of great interest to me.
The Hiramic legend may be the essential part of today’s third degree -Master Mason. But it was not always so.
At the time of the formation of the Grand Lodge of London and Westminster there were only two degrees, Entered Apprentice and Fellow of the Craft. These degrees were in practice, for some time ,by the Operative Masons in Scotland.
Somewhere between 1710 and 1723 a third degree was being conferred in Scotland and then in 1726 a revised third degree was presented as a play in England. It is believed it was developed by Desagulier and friends after he visited Edinburgh Lodge #1 and observed their degrees.
We know from documents at the time (Rituals and lodge minutes) that the current third degree was formed by taking a part of the Fellowcraft degree and constructing the Hiram Legend around it.
These points are all disussed in my paper "How Part of the Fellowcraft Degree became the base for the Master Degree" in which I offered the following conclusion:
1. There was a third degree in existence and practiced in a Scottish lodge sometime between
1710 and 1723.
2. The main character was not Hiram Abiff and not known, but ( surmise) probably Noah.
3. Desaguliers and friends changed the main character from Noah to Hiram Abiff sometime
between 1725 and 1738.
4. The first ever presentation of the current third degree was put on in a theatre as a play and
not in a masonic lodge in 1726.
5. It is suggested, by Bro. Robert Cooper, that they replaced Noah by Hiram Abiff to avoid
trouble with the church because Noah 'belonged' to the Church whereas Hiram Abiff is a
masonic invention.
6. It has also been suggested that the Hiran Abiff legend was invented by jacobites and was
a represenatation of the exicution of the britisk King Charles 1 in 1649.
Worshipful Brother Tom's excellent essay can be found here:
https://emeth.substack.com/p/third-degree-origins
I encourage everyone to read it, I know that you will not be disappointed.
This paper by Robert Powell makes good reading. https://www.quatuorcoronati.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/AQC-134.02-Powell-1.pdf
Thank you Brother!