Our ritual demands that we will not initiate a young man in nonage, or an old man in dotage.
In Washington we have agreed on a clear guideline for who we consider to be a young man in nonage: We will not initiate anyone under eighteen years of age.
We have not however set a standard for what we consider an old man in dotage.
My dictionary defines dotage as “The period of life in which a person is old and weak.”
For purposes of Masonic initiation, how old and weak is too old and weak?
We've improved how we age and we have 80 year old Brothers that can carry a lecture and younger men have to keep up. If a man who cannot maintain a thought or physically unable to be at the lodge, he's probably not a good candidate. I have seen a Grand Master make a man who was near death a mason on sight. Maturity carries a definite weight of experience and character. So, that being said, it should be obvious we politely say no, when we observe.
Admitting an old man in dotage isn't the problem, advancing an old man in dotage through the chairs is. It happened in my lodge twice and it was a mistake both times.
We have a brother who turned 100 last summer. We do need to drive him to Lodge, but his mind is ever sharp. I wouldn’t be opposed to accepting a candidate like him.
I had found that many older people develop habits (as we all do,) but they are so ingrained that it can be difficult, if not impossible, to change them. I coached a few new Entered Apprentices that were in their 70’s, and it was beyond challenging. They wanted to change the ritual to reflect how they spoke, and their personal outlook. I kept telling them they needed to learn the words in the manner laid out in the cyphers, and over a few months, they threw in the towel and said they simply cannot learn the ritual, and never progressed. I thought part of it was my fault, and talked with schoolteachers and college professors to see what I could do to perfect my mentoring skills. Many of them told me their worst students were senior citizens, for the reasons I noted. They already have their opinions and habits firmly established, and it seems to be impossible for them to learn new things. In addition, I have noticed (and the college professors admitted they’ve experienced it as well) that many senior citizen students have a habit of “following the squirrel,” in that you’re trying to show them an item to learn, and they point at something else and say, “what does that do?” and you stress for them to focus on the item being taught, but they won’t do that until you show them what they’re interested in.
Indeed, many of us know of a member of our Lodge who is older, has some bad habits, and refuses to change them. “This is the way I am, and if you don’t like it, tough luck.” And we get frustrated as that older curmudgeon and his bad behavior runs off newer members.
But to return to the question. One of my Lodge’s Past Masters thinks there should be an upper age limit to who can petition for the Degrees, just like we have the lower limit of 18. But should we paint everyone over a certain age with the same broad brush? What would that age be? 80? 70? 50? And as many of us know of an elderly Curmudgeon in our Lodge, we also know of several senior citizen members who are excellent beacons of knowledge and wisdom. In Lewis County, we have a 5-time Past Master and Past District Deputy who learned the 3rd Degree Lecture, the Funeral service, and the installation of officers, all when he was in his 70’s! While he’s now in his mid 80’s and getting tired, he’s still an inspiration to the younger members. Should we dismiss the petition of someone like that outright, just because he’s older than a set age?
Once again, it’s one of those “West Gate” situations, and again stresses the importance of the Investigating Committee. But to those older members of our Lodges, please remember that you are role models for the younger members. They are watching you, the way you carry yourself, your manners, your words. And especially your advice. Please be mindful of your inherent leadership status in your Lodge. You can make a positive difference in the life of a young man just as easily as you can frustrate them. It’s up to you.
While there is a corelation between "age" and " dottage", i don't see them as synonymous. when admitting a man to be a brother, he should be capable of learning the memory work required of a MM, regardless of age. Maybe a better question is this; " is a man considered for initiation mentally able to beneffit from Masonry?" if the answer is yes, then admit him. If no then don't. A good man, who is not capable of being effected by Masonry to be a better man due to 'dottage' then he is not a good fit.
"Dotage" is defined as "the period of life in which a person is old and weak." Many older people I know have frail, ailing bodies, but their minds are sharp and fast. That's a roll of the genetic dice, as far as I'm concerned. Most of the older non-Masons with whom I have discussed Masonry say, "That's nice, but I don't think I'd be interested." And that's fine with me. What we do not need is someone who needs assistance to find the bathroom or who drools and dribbles food down his shirt front. Can the man function as a Mason? Is he capable of memorizing the requisite work? Will he be a "good Mason?" It's the same with a "young man in nonage." Yes, a man of 18 years old *can* be made a Mason, but *should" he? The average age of Entered Apprentices in Washington jurisdiction is nearly 59 years old. Of Master Masons, almost 68 years old. Why so old? Young men are more interested in, and focused on establishing their livelihoods, families, and hobbies. Masonry appears to be more attractive to men nearing retirement and having more time to spend on extracurricular activities. Just my opinion, but if a man is capable of dressing himself, communicating articulately, and is of good moral character, he may well be a candidate for the degrees. Just my thoughts...
For purposes of Masonic initiation, too old and too weak are situational and it's up to the vote of the Lodge make the right decision. But our existing members are not immune to those same afflictions which disqualify initiates.
We care deeply for our brothers, who were once-great-Masons, and have lived long enough to enter that period of life in which a person is old and weak. We are well prepared to love and care for the brother who quietly and peacefully awaits the call from the Great Architect. It's what we, as Masons, do.
"Dotage" and "mad man" are outmoded terms alluding to a decline in mental acuity and/or mental health. Today, our healthcare system prefers the description of someone's condition as "Behavioral Health" or "Cognitive Impairment" or Dementia etc.
When behavioral health issues manifest in Lodge, we often do not recognize them as such. Instead, we call it "un-Masonic behavior".
If our once-great long-time brother begins to act un-Masonicly due to the onset of a senior mental condition, we are ill-prepared to diagnose or handle the situation. We often allow the behavioral issue to metastasize in disharmony throughout the Lodge until the afflicted brother withdraws, commits a grievous WMC violation, or dies.
While the WMC is the embodiment of excellent jurisprudence for the able minded, Masonry has no provision for a "way out with dignity" for a brother who is severely affected by the period of life in which he becomes too old and weak in the mind.
really uncomfortable. I know a local lodge that initiated a man in his 70s about a year ago, who withdrew from lodge membership after about 5 weeks of catechism work. The membership felt that in his mental processing / memory there "wasn't something quite right" as in he had a hard time learning, retaining, got frequently confused, etc. I'm not trying to put the man down but in hindsight I think there were some clear signs of early-stage senile dementia in the man.
If they could go back and do it again I think they'd not initiate this guy (because of the outcome really) but when I saw this situation my mind immediately went to the MM obligation.
The standard though is really tough. If the standard *isn't* specified, I would argue that implicitly the standard is set by the WM and the investigating committee. Too old & weak is whatever that committee and the master say it is, but usually they aren't looking for this case...
As Forthrighter commented, he knows of a Lodge that initiated a man that most likely was in dotage or the beginning stages for sure.
And I 100% agree with VWB Clayton that our current Six Steps program would likely self identity men at this stage, especially the part where they are asked to memorize the Common Gavel section of our ritual (or other similar selection by the Lodge).
Here's the rub.
What if he make it through the Six Steps, receives a petition, is investigated, receives a satisfactory investigation report and then the ballot is spread.
What do YOU do?
As the will of the Lodge was to offer a petition and return a favorable investigation, do you consider utilizing your duty and right as a Master Mason with your vote?
Secondly, if you are not in attendance for the ballot and he is elected to the degrees, should you attend or be part of making him a Mason? Our obligation forbids our presence! And yet, are we not supporting our Lodge Brothers in the process by being absent or not acting as we should at the ballot?
I'm going to pop some popcorn before I read the replies. 😁
Interesting and provocative;
We've improved how we age and we have 80 year old Brothers that can carry a lecture and younger men have to keep up. If a man who cannot maintain a thought or physically unable to be at the lodge, he's probably not a good candidate. I have seen a Grand Master make a man who was near death a mason on sight. Maturity carries a definite weight of experience and character. So, that being said, it should be obvious we politely say no, when we observe.
Admitting an old man in dotage isn't the problem, advancing an old man in dotage through the chairs is. It happened in my lodge twice and it was a mistake both times.
We have a brother who turned 100 last summer. We do need to drive him to Lodge, but his mind is ever sharp. I wouldn’t be opposed to accepting a candidate like him.
I had found that many older people develop habits (as we all do,) but they are so ingrained that it can be difficult, if not impossible, to change them. I coached a few new Entered Apprentices that were in their 70’s, and it was beyond challenging. They wanted to change the ritual to reflect how they spoke, and their personal outlook. I kept telling them they needed to learn the words in the manner laid out in the cyphers, and over a few months, they threw in the towel and said they simply cannot learn the ritual, and never progressed. I thought part of it was my fault, and talked with schoolteachers and college professors to see what I could do to perfect my mentoring skills. Many of them told me their worst students were senior citizens, for the reasons I noted. They already have their opinions and habits firmly established, and it seems to be impossible for them to learn new things. In addition, I have noticed (and the college professors admitted they’ve experienced it as well) that many senior citizen students have a habit of “following the squirrel,” in that you’re trying to show them an item to learn, and they point at something else and say, “what does that do?” and you stress for them to focus on the item being taught, but they won’t do that until you show them what they’re interested in.
Indeed, many of us know of a member of our Lodge who is older, has some bad habits, and refuses to change them. “This is the way I am, and if you don’t like it, tough luck.” And we get frustrated as that older curmudgeon and his bad behavior runs off newer members.
But to return to the question. One of my Lodge’s Past Masters thinks there should be an upper age limit to who can petition for the Degrees, just like we have the lower limit of 18. But should we paint everyone over a certain age with the same broad brush? What would that age be? 80? 70? 50? And as many of us know of an elderly Curmudgeon in our Lodge, we also know of several senior citizen members who are excellent beacons of knowledge and wisdom. In Lewis County, we have a 5-time Past Master and Past District Deputy who learned the 3rd Degree Lecture, the Funeral service, and the installation of officers, all when he was in his 70’s! While he’s now in his mid 80’s and getting tired, he’s still an inspiration to the younger members. Should we dismiss the petition of someone like that outright, just because he’s older than a set age?
Once again, it’s one of those “West Gate” situations, and again stresses the importance of the Investigating Committee. But to those older members of our Lodges, please remember that you are role models for the younger members. They are watching you, the way you carry yourself, your manners, your words. And especially your advice. Please be mindful of your inherent leadership status in your Lodge. You can make a positive difference in the life of a young man just as easily as you can frustrate them. It’s up to you.
Not sure who you are or your motive. Concer ed when $$ is asked for. Do understand that it is a component, Just trust but verify!
While there is a corelation between "age" and " dottage", i don't see them as synonymous. when admitting a man to be a brother, he should be capable of learning the memory work required of a MM, regardless of age. Maybe a better question is this; " is a man considered for initiation mentally able to beneffit from Masonry?" if the answer is yes, then admit him. If no then don't. A good man, who is not capable of being effected by Masonry to be a better man due to 'dottage' then he is not a good fit.
"Dotage" is defined as "the period of life in which a person is old and weak." Many older people I know have frail, ailing bodies, but their minds are sharp and fast. That's a roll of the genetic dice, as far as I'm concerned. Most of the older non-Masons with whom I have discussed Masonry say, "That's nice, but I don't think I'd be interested." And that's fine with me. What we do not need is someone who needs assistance to find the bathroom or who drools and dribbles food down his shirt front. Can the man function as a Mason? Is he capable of memorizing the requisite work? Will he be a "good Mason?" It's the same with a "young man in nonage." Yes, a man of 18 years old *can* be made a Mason, but *should" he? The average age of Entered Apprentices in Washington jurisdiction is nearly 59 years old. Of Master Masons, almost 68 years old. Why so old? Young men are more interested in, and focused on establishing their livelihoods, families, and hobbies. Masonry appears to be more attractive to men nearing retirement and having more time to spend on extracurricular activities. Just my opinion, but if a man is capable of dressing himself, communicating articulately, and is of good moral character, he may well be a candidate for the degrees. Just my thoughts...
For purposes of Masonic initiation, too old and too weak are situational and it's up to the vote of the Lodge make the right decision. But our existing members are not immune to those same afflictions which disqualify initiates.
We care deeply for our brothers, who were once-great-Masons, and have lived long enough to enter that period of life in which a person is old and weak. We are well prepared to love and care for the brother who quietly and peacefully awaits the call from the Great Architect. It's what we, as Masons, do.
"Dotage" and "mad man" are outmoded terms alluding to a decline in mental acuity and/or mental health. Today, our healthcare system prefers the description of someone's condition as "Behavioral Health" or "Cognitive Impairment" or Dementia etc.
When behavioral health issues manifest in Lodge, we often do not recognize them as such. Instead, we call it "un-Masonic behavior".
If our once-great long-time brother begins to act un-Masonicly due to the onset of a senior mental condition, we are ill-prepared to diagnose or handle the situation. We often allow the behavioral issue to metastasize in disharmony throughout the Lodge until the afflicted brother withdraws, commits a grievous WMC violation, or dies.
While the WMC is the embodiment of excellent jurisprudence for the able minded, Masonry has no provision for a "way out with dignity" for a brother who is severely affected by the period of life in which he becomes too old and weak in the mind.
Just sayin'...
I also have to jokingly say, the picture MW picked for this particular topic....what is he trying to say? LOL.
really uncomfortable. I know a local lodge that initiated a man in his 70s about a year ago, who withdrew from lodge membership after about 5 weeks of catechism work. The membership felt that in his mental processing / memory there "wasn't something quite right" as in he had a hard time learning, retaining, got frequently confused, etc. I'm not trying to put the man down but in hindsight I think there were some clear signs of early-stage senile dementia in the man.
If they could go back and do it again I think they'd not initiate this guy (because of the outcome really) but when I saw this situation my mind immediately went to the MM obligation.
The standard though is really tough. If the standard *isn't* specified, I would argue that implicitly the standard is set by the WM and the investigating committee. Too old & weak is whatever that committee and the master say it is, but usually they aren't looking for this case...
Here's a twist.
As Forthrighter commented, he knows of a Lodge that initiated a man that most likely was in dotage or the beginning stages for sure.
And I 100% agree with VWB Clayton that our current Six Steps program would likely self identity men at this stage, especially the part where they are asked to memorize the Common Gavel section of our ritual (or other similar selection by the Lodge).
Here's the rub.
What if he make it through the Six Steps, receives a petition, is investigated, receives a satisfactory investigation report and then the ballot is spread.
What do YOU do?
As the will of the Lodge was to offer a petition and return a favorable investigation, do you consider utilizing your duty and right as a Master Mason with your vote?
Secondly, if you are not in attendance for the ballot and he is elected to the degrees, should you attend or be part of making him a Mason? Our obligation forbids our presence! And yet, are we not supporting our Lodge Brothers in the process by being absent or not acting as we should at the ballot?
I'm going to pop some popcorn before I read the replies. 😁