To your mind, and in your Jurisdiction, what are those Masonic things that must be kept secret? That you can’t discuss or tell non-Masons?
Related to that, but not quite the same, what Masonic things are you personally uncomfortable about discussing with non-Masons? Or won’t discuss within earshot of non-Masons?
Finally, do you think that this has changed over time? Are we more open about Masonry now than we were in the past? Do we place less value on Masonic secrecy? Would we benefit from more secrecy?
You once told me you could not tell me what you do in your ritual as it was a secret. I have to say I find that very strange as I am a WB in the UK. NOW if you are not going to tell a WB. HOW could you tell anything to the uninitiated and popular world?
There is a difference between discussing masonry with non-masons, and discussing masonry with clandestine masons, at least in my opinion. Let's take the apron lecture, for example. It's a topic we openly share with non-masons. If they wanted to talk about it further, I wouldn't have any problem with that. It's not a secret. The difference is, however, that if I was talking with a clandestine mason, that I knew was a clandestine mason, I would not talk about it at all. Why? Because I promised I wouldn't. No different than visiting a lodge not recognized as regular by our GL, if I knew them to be such.
To me, the difference is that conversing masonically with a clandestine mason legitimizes their status as a mason when, according to my GL, they are not.
As for the second question, what would I not talk about to non masons? The ritual, grips, passwords, etc, things deemed esoteric.
I think there was a generation or two that kind of missed the point about the secrecy surrounding masonry. They took the whole "secret society" thing to heart, when we're not a secret society and it hurt our ability to get new members. Even today, there are brothers that openly hate the fact our GL runs advertisements and openly proclaims our existence.
Has that changed over time? Yes, obviously, especially with the birth of the Internet.
I tell people the NATURE of what the secrets are (modes of recognition, specific forms and words of ritual) but not the details. I also say that secrecy is a matter of trust and discipline -- confidence between Brothers. It's not about the things kept secret. I tell them I am not offended by them looking it all up online, just that *I* can't tell them such things.
I also say that there is another kind of secret -- those things not hidden but not seen. This means there is plenty of knowledge and wisdom you now know to look for and where to find it in virtue of the Masonic experience.
I watched most of 33 and beyond last night. I really liked that Jim Trezner went to bat for the use of secrecy. An open society is wonderful, however it is not prudent nor is it necessary that all knowledge be public.
The ceremonies of initiation, the grisly details of Masonic trials, symbolism of the degrees, and the modes of recognition are the primary things I believe we should hold in confidence. Paying the bills, assets etc are of little consequence to the profane.
Yes, modes of recognition are secret. If we can’t trust a man to keep a handshake secret, what can you trust him with.
But it goes beyond this, and more importantly so. It’s the secrets brothers share with one another that really should be locked in the repository of the faithful breast.
It’s generally difficult for men to put down their guard to be vulnerable. Yet when that happens, growth and transformation follow. The quickest way to destroy this is the inability to keep a man’s secret. It’s in our obligation and every MM has agreed to it.
A great book to read on the topic of secrecy is The Way of the Craftsman. MacNulty has a great chapter on the topic.
As a Rosicrucian and life long Mystic, certain things and experiences are sacred to me. I personally think the more we protect the sacred, the more sacred it is. It builds in energy when we keep the secret. Like casting our seeds to aim at fertile ground, not food for the locusts.
There are two sets of secrets, traditionally, I think. One is obvious, signs and recognition and our rituals. All of which is available online. The other set of secrets are VERY secret and impossible to share. Those are the personal realizations experienced in our practices and rituals when taken seriously from a spiritual point of view. You can't share them with cowens because there is no shared point of reference.
There are no secrets in Freemasonry. Everything can be found online. Even when buying books, no one asks if we are, or get tyled in order to sell a book.
Having said that, I'm going to contradict myself, yes there a secrets. But these secrets are hidden in the rituals. The way my teachers taught me was that there is an Oral Tradition still going on in Freemasonry (it was like that at the beginning and still some of the deepest mysteries are kept like that). There are teachings that are given "from mouth to ear". Is the norm of all the Schools of Mysteries.
The best way to keep a secret is saying it, without saying it. Like symbols, paintings, music, etc.
When I was in the Military I had a Top Secret clearance. That meant that I would not reveal the content of any TS documents or even acknowledge their existence.
Some of the TS information seemed trivial and some even appeared in the media or in popular books. None the less. I was not free to acknowledge or verify any information about it. I appeared quite uninformed at times but I knew the classified background of many news stories.
I was granted a TS clearance because the military believed I could be trusted to keep my obligation to keep secrets secret.
Masonry is based on mutual Trust and Respect; not unlike the military. It's not that anything we reveal will start WW3, but a mutual obligation of trust. That obligation extends beyond the "secrets" of Masonry but to the collective and individual "secrets" of brothers and all others whom we trust.
You cannot truly be a friend or brother without trust.
You once told me you could not tell me what you do in your ritual as it was a secret. I have to say I find that very strange as I am a WB in the UK. NOW if you are not going to tell a WB. HOW could you tell anything to the uninitiated and popular world?
There is a difference between discussing masonry with non-masons, and discussing masonry with clandestine masons, at least in my opinion. Let's take the apron lecture, for example. It's a topic we openly share with non-masons. If they wanted to talk about it further, I wouldn't have any problem with that. It's not a secret. The difference is, however, that if I was talking with a clandestine mason, that I knew was a clandestine mason, I would not talk about it at all. Why? Because I promised I wouldn't. No different than visiting a lodge not recognized as regular by our GL, if I knew them to be such.
To me, the difference is that conversing masonically with a clandestine mason legitimizes their status as a mason when, according to my GL, they are not.
As for the second question, what would I not talk about to non masons? The ritual, grips, passwords, etc, things deemed esoteric.
I think there was a generation or two that kind of missed the point about the secrecy surrounding masonry. They took the whole "secret society" thing to heart, when we're not a secret society and it hurt our ability to get new members. Even today, there are brothers that openly hate the fact our GL runs advertisements and openly proclaims our existence.
Has that changed over time? Yes, obviously, especially with the birth of the Internet.
I try to have my cake and eat it, too.
I tell people the NATURE of what the secrets are (modes of recognition, specific forms and words of ritual) but not the details. I also say that secrecy is a matter of trust and discipline -- confidence between Brothers. It's not about the things kept secret. I tell them I am not offended by them looking it all up online, just that *I* can't tell them such things.
I also say that there is another kind of secret -- those things not hidden but not seen. This means there is plenty of knowledge and wisdom you now know to look for and where to find it in virtue of the Masonic experience.
I watched most of 33 and beyond last night. I really liked that Jim Trezner went to bat for the use of secrecy. An open society is wonderful, however it is not prudent nor is it necessary that all knowledge be public.
The ceremonies of initiation, the grisly details of Masonic trials, symbolism of the degrees, and the modes of recognition are the primary things I believe we should hold in confidence. Paying the bills, assets etc are of little consequence to the profane.
Yes, modes of recognition are secret. If we can’t trust a man to keep a handshake secret, what can you trust him with.
But it goes beyond this, and more importantly so. It’s the secrets brothers share with one another that really should be locked in the repository of the faithful breast.
It’s generally difficult for men to put down their guard to be vulnerable. Yet when that happens, growth and transformation follow. The quickest way to destroy this is the inability to keep a man’s secret. It’s in our obligation and every MM has agreed to it.
A great book to read on the topic of secrecy is The Way of the Craftsman. MacNulty has a great chapter on the topic.
As a Rosicrucian and life long Mystic, certain things and experiences are sacred to me. I personally think the more we protect the sacred, the more sacred it is. It builds in energy when we keep the secret. Like casting our seeds to aim at fertile ground, not food for the locusts.
There are two sets of secrets, traditionally, I think. One is obvious, signs and recognition and our rituals. All of which is available online. The other set of secrets are VERY secret and impossible to share. Those are the personal realizations experienced in our practices and rituals when taken seriously from a spiritual point of view. You can't share them with cowens because there is no shared point of reference.
There are no secrets in Freemasonry. Everything can be found online. Even when buying books, no one asks if we are, or get tyled in order to sell a book.
Having said that, I'm going to contradict myself, yes there a secrets. But these secrets are hidden in the rituals. The way my teachers taught me was that there is an Oral Tradition still going on in Freemasonry (it was like that at the beginning and still some of the deepest mysteries are kept like that). There are teachings that are given "from mouth to ear". Is the norm of all the Schools of Mysteries.
The best way to keep a secret is saying it, without saying it. Like symbols, paintings, music, etc.
When I was in the Military I had a Top Secret clearance. That meant that I would not reveal the content of any TS documents or even acknowledge their existence.
Some of the TS information seemed trivial and some even appeared in the media or in popular books. None the less. I was not free to acknowledge or verify any information about it. I appeared quite uninformed at times but I knew the classified background of many news stories.
I was granted a TS clearance because the military believed I could be trusted to keep my obligation to keep secrets secret.
Masonry is based on mutual Trust and Respect; not unlike the military. It's not that anything we reveal will start WW3, but a mutual obligation of trust. That obligation extends beyond the "secrets" of Masonry but to the collective and individual "secrets" of brothers and all others whom we trust.
You cannot truly be a friend or brother without trust.