If a Lodge was created that was primarily focused on esoteric matters, researching and teaching about esoteric ideas, would you be interested in joining?
We often hear that the newer Masons of today are very interested in esoterica. Given that, would we be well served in creating a Lodge focused on those studies?
I don't know. I suppose that is something that every Lodge needs to figure out on its own. I know that we have some Lodges in Washington that are now including a virtual part in each meeting. That seems like a good idea to me.
Open Lodge - Then Open Zoom for the program - Then Close Zoom - Then Close Lodge
I also imagine it possible that someday soon a proposal will be made at an annual communication that would permit full Lodge meetings to include Brothers on Zoom. It would be interesting to see such a proposal debated.
Yes, 100%. Where I am, there are a lot of these brothers but they are all scattered. So what you have is say 10-15 lodges, each of which have 5-10 brothers who are interested in these topics. That's plenty of masons for a lodge, but each single lodge fails to reach critical mass on focusing lodge education on those topics. The perception is those 5-10 in your local lodge are a minority and don't speak for the main interests of everybody in the lodge, at most an "every once in a while" side topic.
That is largely my perception as well. Brothers who are interested in most of our Lodges, but not in large numbers within any given Lodge. Hence today's question, what if there was a Lodge(s) specifically focused on it for them.
Let me suggest that this dilution/concentration thing is a wider problem in the lodge system, or rather it's a symptom of something else going on. If membership shrinks faster than the number of lodges shrink, fundamentally you'll have fewer masons spread out over more lodges over time. This "scattered" effect might isolate brothers who are interested in esoteric pursuits, but it applies equally to any other interest/passion shared by some but not all. Devotion to a particular charity, fellowship, really anything.
In other words, the "scatter" effect is a special case of a different question:
Is it better to have 20 lodges with 10 active members each? (200 active masons) or is it better to have 10 healthy lodges with perhaps 20 active members each? The number of active members will determine how many and how varied the interests that can gain purchase will be.
I think having a club in the local Scottish Rite temple focusing on research and developing presentations for use in local blue lodges makes more sense. A club made up of members from several lodges would achieve the same goal and provide for an efficient way to spread education.
I do think that Masonic clubs are a top notch idea. I know that historically they were prevalent within our Fraternity.
I don't know why that is no longer the case, but my hunch is that a great many of them converted into Lodges during the periods of tremendous expansion following the World Wars. I think though that the Fraternity could be well served by Masonic clubs, not only for special areas of interest, but in geographic areas without enough population for a Lodge too.
I am very proud to be a Scottish Rite Mason, but I don't know if tying a club like this closely to the Scottish Rite would be the best course. Simply because of the huge numbers of Masons who are not members of the Scottish Rite. I would worry that if it were perceived as a SR thing, some Brothers might feel that they would not be welcome if they weren't SR Masons.
I don't necessarily think a lodge needs to be created just to study those topics. The study can be done anywhere with any of the brothers. What requires a whole separate lodge is the ritual work. Everything else is debatable (literally). If you are planning on conducting your meetings in a manner not acceptable to a more, shall we say, traditional membership, then a new lodge may be necessary. But that's not studying and teaching esoteric matters. As Will mentioned, it can be just a study group or club.
Having read Will's thoughts, and yours, I agree, a Masonic Club might be just the ticket. Especially at the start. If something got rolling along very well, then there would always be the option of becoming a Lodge.
Precisely, Brother Dean, what is the basic premise? Esoteric Freemasonry defined as knowledge intended for, or understood by, only a few, Masonic Esoterica is even perceived as meant for even fewer. It is an often-debatable vein of Freemasonry that man traditionalists argue as fuel to the already mythic origins of the fraternity. Even worse, that in many cases Masonic Esoterica is a later addition added to flavor its origin. All said, Masonic Esoterica exists, whether mystical or not, some masons at some time felt that these things were connected and were relevant to one another. If the following has not been done, we need to do what Emperor Constantine did. He created an operating system (bible) that included Judaism, Christianity, Sun Worship and all other pagan concepts and rituals under one book, (hence one mind) I believe we need to define Masonic Esoterica, and or not, please enlighten me.
Bro Arturo de Hoyos of the AASR wrote very well on the topic of whether or not Freemasonry is esoteric, and what this actually means. A great source to consult.
To my way of thinking, Freemasonry stands in opposition to firm definitions, strict teachings, and dogmatic views.
In my opinion, the strength of Freemasonry is in the fact that every man is free to consider and formulate his own fundamental truths.
Bro. Pike said it much better than I ever could when he wrote:
"Every one is entirely free to reject and dissent from whatsoever herein may seem to him to be untrue or unsound. It is only required of him that he shall weigh what it taught, and give it fair hearing and unprejudiced judgement."
Because to my mind such definitions are best made by the Brothers who would potentially be involved, and may well evolve over time.
I guess the way I would see something like this functioning (either a Lodge as I asked about, or a Club as others have suggested) is that Brothers would research something that interested them, then create a paper/essay/presentation/demonstration or similar, and then present that to the Lodge. Much as Masonic Research Lodges have traditionally done with an eye to historical research.
So, the definition of the term would come about through the presentations given, and the members acceptance (or not) of the concepts behind those presentations.
Yes, I would, and i think having a space for focused study and research is very much needed. Most Lodges and Valleys have a few brethren that are passionate on the subject, and I believe they would enjoy and benefit from fellowship that was focused on their interests. I also think a Lodge like this could be the source for presenations and expertise that would be available to our Lodges and valleys. When i was a Deputy, on one of my offcial visits I asked new Brethren what was missing from their Lodge experience, that they had expected, and esoterica was the most common answer. In fact it was pretty much the only answer. I know other jurisdictions are experimenting witgh focused Lodges, based on careers or other interests, and they seem to be working well. I think this is an obvious choice for a focused Lodge.
I think that in many cases, Brothers who are inclined towards these kinds of things are hesitant to bring them up knowing that others are in the room who think differently. Generally speaking, people want to fit in, and the easiest way to do that it to not bring up topics that some people might think strange.
A Lodge, or a formal Masonic Club, specifically created for that purpose would remove that natural hesitation.
We have seen from yesterday's discussion, and from the Emeth zoom gathering on Sunday, that if the work was high enough in quality, Brothers would be willing to travel a great distance to participate.
"Masons are in the business of creating sacred space."
-Sasha Graham
Ms. Graham goes on to write of the operative Masons who create sacred space in the world, with their hands, and speculative Masons who create sacred space in a given location with our rituals, and within themselves through initiation and code.
The lodge I attend is pretty clear to its candidates, there are various lodges to choose from; some are geared towards fellowship, others with charity work, even though we have parts of both, our focus is on education with an emphasis on esoterica. I believe our secretary VW bro Zane has researched, showing the majority of younger candidates are primarily interested in this aspect.
Recently, I have been exploring topics from bro Frank Higgins, who founded the Magian Society (September 29, 1913), which was formed for Masonic antiquarian research. Further exemplifying his aim, he stated his books are issued as a challenge to the dry-as-dusts of the Fraternity, who have too long- been amiably permitted to prate of "the totally unsound and eventually to be exploded myths of Masonry.”
To me, he hit the nail on the head. This past year, I have been digging into our old manuscripts, primarily from the 17th Century and have been truly fascinated. I may be getting a little off topic here, but I think it’s worth sharing, how this era marked the age of enlightenment and rebirth of Masons, expanding it to Free and Accepted fraternity of Speculative Masons, and its esoteric teachings. I have many notes tracing the ‘enlightenment era’ to 1604, from a star gazer by the name of Johannes Kepler. His outline of an even that took place touches on the magic square and Pythagoras Tetractys (ref. Harmonices Mundi, 1619 and De Stella Nova, 1606). To make a long story short, this was when a Supernova was seen on the heel of the constellation of the serpent-bearer, (appearing like a red rose) with its alignment to Cignus, also known as the Northern Cross (hence the name of the society of the Rose Croix). This Society follows a man by the name of Sir Francis Bacon to the Royal Society, to the English Lodge of Freemasons, as well as the Masonic French Lodge, and the formation of the United States. If anyone is interested, I wrote an essay on this and would be happy to email a copy.
My point being to all of this, is I do believe we would be well served in creating and maintain a Lodge as such.
Hi Warren. I’d be interested in that essay. I don’t want to post my email in this day of data scraping but it is: firstnamelastname at yahoo dot com. Thanks!
I would be interested, but limited to distance and time for travel. (I don't get around so well anymore!) I study on my own, but would like to be energized by others who have access to and have studied different material
It is my hope that our Lodges continue to better implement technology so that we can include those who have difficulty traveling or have moved or for whatever reason can't attend in person. My Lodge has continued to utilize Zoom for the educational and fellowship parts of our meetings. It hasn't been perfect from a technological perspective, but as we figure out, and buy, better equipment, it will improve. It is though quite wonderful to get to see Brothers who one thought would never be seen in Lodge again due to distance.
First one must ascertain what esoteric is from the men who expound it. Personally, I find that study group offshoots are better for discussion they can arise collapse, be reborn and cost nothing. Then again, escotericon seems to be the big thing of late I suppose for the swag and as networking events. I've always enjoyed the journey and stayed clear of people who try to tell me how I should interpret symbols, hidden meaning and the like practice my on spirituality that's my and gods business. Many of these affinity lodges only last a decadeand require great effort to get off of the ground. Personally, I think these experiences are best kept private and to a handful of people who really appreciate learning, contribute to the discussion are of like mind, and similar educational background. But that's just me. A lot of the independent bodies fill these voids, primarily because the mainstream lodges didn't as they grew and strove to replicate the club movements of the early 20th century.
Interested, but would that work virtually?
I don't know. I suppose that is something that every Lodge needs to figure out on its own. I know that we have some Lodges in Washington that are now including a virtual part in each meeting. That seems like a good idea to me.
Open Lodge - Then Open Zoom for the program - Then Close Zoom - Then Close Lodge
I also imagine it possible that someday soon a proposal will be made at an annual communication that would permit full Lodge meetings to include Brothers on Zoom. It would be interesting to see such a proposal debated.
we're a volunteer organization; it'd work if the membership made it work. It wouldn't if they didn't
Yes, 100%. Where I am, there are a lot of these brothers but they are all scattered. So what you have is say 10-15 lodges, each of which have 5-10 brothers who are interested in these topics. That's plenty of masons for a lodge, but each single lodge fails to reach critical mass on focusing lodge education on those topics. The perception is those 5-10 in your local lodge are a minority and don't speak for the main interests of everybody in the lodge, at most an "every once in a while" side topic.
That is largely my perception as well. Brothers who are interested in most of our Lodges, but not in large numbers within any given Lodge. Hence today's question, what if there was a Lodge(s) specifically focused on it for them.
Let me suggest that this dilution/concentration thing is a wider problem in the lodge system, or rather it's a symptom of something else going on. If membership shrinks faster than the number of lodges shrink, fundamentally you'll have fewer masons spread out over more lodges over time. This "scattered" effect might isolate brothers who are interested in esoteric pursuits, but it applies equally to any other interest/passion shared by some but not all. Devotion to a particular charity, fellowship, really anything.
In other words, the "scatter" effect is a special case of a different question:
Is it better to have 20 lodges with 10 active members each? (200 active masons) or is it better to have 10 healthy lodges with perhaps 20 active members each? The number of active members will determine how many and how varied the interests that can gain purchase will be.
I think having a club in the local Scottish Rite temple focusing on research and developing presentations for use in local blue lodges makes more sense. A club made up of members from several lodges would achieve the same goal and provide for an efficient way to spread education.
I do think that Masonic clubs are a top notch idea. I know that historically they were prevalent within our Fraternity.
I don't know why that is no longer the case, but my hunch is that a great many of them converted into Lodges during the periods of tremendous expansion following the World Wars. I think though that the Fraternity could be well served by Masonic clubs, not only for special areas of interest, but in geographic areas without enough population for a Lodge too.
I am very proud to be a Scottish Rite Mason, but I don't know if tying a club like this closely to the Scottish Rite would be the best course. Simply because of the huge numbers of Masons who are not members of the Scottish Rite. I would worry that if it were perceived as a SR thing, some Brothers might feel that they would not be welcome if they weren't SR Masons.
I don't necessarily think a lodge needs to be created just to study those topics. The study can be done anywhere with any of the brothers. What requires a whole separate lodge is the ritual work. Everything else is debatable (literally). If you are planning on conducting your meetings in a manner not acceptable to a more, shall we say, traditional membership, then a new lodge may be necessary. But that's not studying and teaching esoteric matters. As Will mentioned, it can be just a study group or club.
Having read Will's thoughts, and yours, I agree, a Masonic Club might be just the ticket. Especially at the start. If something got rolling along very well, then there would always be the option of becoming a Lodge.
Why not start with defining what that means first?
Precisely, Brother Dean, what is the basic premise? Esoteric Freemasonry defined as knowledge intended for, or understood by, only a few, Masonic Esoterica is even perceived as meant for even fewer. It is an often-debatable vein of Freemasonry that man traditionalists argue as fuel to the already mythic origins of the fraternity. Even worse, that in many cases Masonic Esoterica is a later addition added to flavor its origin. All said, Masonic Esoterica exists, whether mystical or not, some masons at some time felt that these things were connected and were relevant to one another. If the following has not been done, we need to do what Emperor Constantine did. He created an operating system (bible) that included Judaism, Christianity, Sun Worship and all other pagan concepts and rituals under one book, (hence one mind) I believe we need to define Masonic Esoterica, and or not, please enlighten me.
Bro Arturo de Hoyos of the AASR wrote very well on the topic of whether or not Freemasonry is esoteric, and what this actually means. A great source to consult.
https://scottishrite.org/scottish-rite-myths-and-facts/is-freemasonry-esoteric/
This is an excellent article. Thank you for including the link.
To my way of thinking, Freemasonry stands in opposition to firm definitions, strict teachings, and dogmatic views.
In my opinion, the strength of Freemasonry is in the fact that every man is free to consider and formulate his own fundamental truths.
Bro. Pike said it much better than I ever could when he wrote:
"Every one is entirely free to reject and dissent from whatsoever herein may seem to him to be untrue or unsound. It is only required of him that he shall weigh what it taught, and give it fair hearing and unprejudiced judgement."
-Preface, Morals & Dogma
Because to my mind such definitions are best made by the Brothers who would potentially be involved, and may well evolve over time.
I guess the way I would see something like this functioning (either a Lodge as I asked about, or a Club as others have suggested) is that Brothers would research something that interested them, then create a paper/essay/presentation/demonstration or similar, and then present that to the Lodge. Much as Masonic Research Lodges have traditionally done with an eye to historical research.
So, the definition of the term would come about through the presentations given, and the members acceptance (or not) of the concepts behind those presentations.
That's how I would see it anyway.
Yes, I would, and i think having a space for focused study and research is very much needed. Most Lodges and Valleys have a few brethren that are passionate on the subject, and I believe they would enjoy and benefit from fellowship that was focused on their interests. I also think a Lodge like this could be the source for presenations and expertise that would be available to our Lodges and valleys. When i was a Deputy, on one of my offcial visits I asked new Brethren what was missing from their Lodge experience, that they had expected, and esoterica was the most common answer. In fact it was pretty much the only answer. I know other jurisdictions are experimenting witgh focused Lodges, based on careers or other interests, and they seem to be working well. I think this is an obvious choice for a focused Lodge.
I think that in many cases, Brothers who are inclined towards these kinds of things are hesitant to bring them up knowing that others are in the room who think differently. Generally speaking, people want to fit in, and the easiest way to do that it to not bring up topics that some people might think strange.
A Lodge, or a formal Masonic Club, specifically created for that purpose would remove that natural hesitation.
We have seen from yesterday's discussion, and from the Emeth zoom gathering on Sunday, that if the work was high enough in quality, Brothers would be willing to travel a great distance to participate.
"Masons are in the business of creating sacred space."
-Sasha Graham
Ms. Graham goes on to write of the operative Masons who create sacred space in the world, with their hands, and speculative Masons who create sacred space in a given location with our rituals, and within themselves through initiation and code.
The lodge I attend is pretty clear to its candidates, there are various lodges to choose from; some are geared towards fellowship, others with charity work, even though we have parts of both, our focus is on education with an emphasis on esoterica. I believe our secretary VW bro Zane has researched, showing the majority of younger candidates are primarily interested in this aspect.
Recently, I have been exploring topics from bro Frank Higgins, who founded the Magian Society (September 29, 1913), which was formed for Masonic antiquarian research. Further exemplifying his aim, he stated his books are issued as a challenge to the dry-as-dusts of the Fraternity, who have too long- been amiably permitted to prate of "the totally unsound and eventually to be exploded myths of Masonry.”
To me, he hit the nail on the head. This past year, I have been digging into our old manuscripts, primarily from the 17th Century and have been truly fascinated. I may be getting a little off topic here, but I think it’s worth sharing, how this era marked the age of enlightenment and rebirth of Masons, expanding it to Free and Accepted fraternity of Speculative Masons, and its esoteric teachings. I have many notes tracing the ‘enlightenment era’ to 1604, from a star gazer by the name of Johannes Kepler. His outline of an even that took place touches on the magic square and Pythagoras Tetractys (ref. Harmonices Mundi, 1619 and De Stella Nova, 1606). To make a long story short, this was when a Supernova was seen on the heel of the constellation of the serpent-bearer, (appearing like a red rose) with its alignment to Cignus, also known as the Northern Cross (hence the name of the society of the Rose Croix). This Society follows a man by the name of Sir Francis Bacon to the Royal Society, to the English Lodge of Freemasons, as well as the Masonic French Lodge, and the formation of the United States. If anyone is interested, I wrote an essay on this and would be happy to email a copy.
My point being to all of this, is I do believe we would be well served in creating and maintain a Lodge as such.
Hi Warren. I’d be interested in that essay. I don’t want to post my email in this day of data scraping but it is: firstnamelastname at yahoo dot com. Thanks!
For those seeking a little more about Bro. Higgins, one of his books is posted online, easily divided into short chapters:
https://freemasoninformation.com/masonic-education/books/the-beginning-of-masonry/
I would be interested, but limited to distance and time for travel. (I don't get around so well anymore!) I study on my own, but would like to be energized by others who have access to and have studied different material
shoot me an email at undertoww@gmail.com and Ill forward a copy to you
It is my hope that our Lodges continue to better implement technology so that we can include those who have difficulty traveling or have moved or for whatever reason can't attend in person. My Lodge has continued to utilize Zoom for the educational and fellowship parts of our meetings. It hasn't been perfect from a technological perspective, but as we figure out, and buy, better equipment, it will improve. It is though quite wonderful to get to see Brothers who one thought would never be seen in Lodge again due to distance.
First one must ascertain what esoteric is from the men who expound it. Personally, I find that study group offshoots are better for discussion they can arise collapse, be reborn and cost nothing. Then again, escotericon seems to be the big thing of late I suppose for the swag and as networking events. I've always enjoyed the journey and stayed clear of people who try to tell me how I should interpret symbols, hidden meaning and the like practice my on spirituality that's my and gods business. Many of these affinity lodges only last a decadeand require great effort to get off of the ground. Personally, I think these experiences are best kept private and to a handful of people who really appreciate learning, contribute to the discussion are of like mind, and similar educational background. But that's just me. A lot of the independent bodies fill these voids, primarily because the mainstream lodges didn't as they grew and strove to replicate the club movements of the early 20th century.
I really should have read that before i posted. The Grammar and spelling is terrible!
It happens to all of us Brother.