This essay was interesting, but it hit me in a bad way. There were way too many of my high school friends who were smokers in the 1960's. Of the total 160 in the Class of 1965, about 60 have already passed away. A year ago I lost a brother in law at his age of 78 (he had been one you talked about smoking two packs a day)! I had visited him in a health care facility a week before he died. He could barely move, and barely breathe with the oxygen tubes attached.
And a gal who I used to walk home in Junior High School passed away a month ago from lung cancer. Tobacco is not considered a "sin", but it does "tax" us. BTW, all of this makes me glad I quit smoking at the age of 12 (me and my buddies burned up a borrowed sleeping bag during a backyard campout; it cost us $5 each)!
I am sorry to read about your friends, and hope that you will accept my condolences.
Undoubtedly cigarettes are a shockingly dangerous form of tobacco consumption, and it is really sad that due to cheapness of manufacture and convenience they replaced much older and safer forms of consumption. Hopefully, as a society we have largely learned from that mistake and embraced harm reduction. I think we have now, I do see an awful lot of young people using things like Zyn, but very few smoking cigarettes.
My dad died a few years ago in an accident on our farm, not from cigarettes, but they had made him extremely unhealthy and I believe that had the accident not taken him his two packs a day of Camel Regulars would have. He told me once that he took up cigarettes in the army (Vietnam) because during training those who used cigarettes got plenty of smoke breaks, those who didn't, didn't.
At the moment my youngest daughter smokes cigarettes. I keep trying to convince her to switch to a safer form of nicotine consumption, but so far no dice. I'll keep working on it.
In my own experiments with cigarettes as a kid I never burned anything up, but one of my uncles (who wasn't much older than us) burned down a small barn as a teenager messing with a cigarette. I remember standing at the window in my grandparents house and watching it go up in flames. Now, all these decades later, he won't admit to doing it!
Fortunately, my father chose to give up cigarettes in 1950, when he had a house built for my family. This saving of $$$ allowed him to participate in WV Masonic Grand Lodge and become WV Grand Master in 1968 (and live to the age of 91)! As I recall, cigarettes were included in C-Rations in WWII?
I started with dip as a kid, but at my first 'adult job' almost everyone smoked, so I had a brief stint as a smoker. Like your dad I quit cigarettes when I bought a house. Doing so freed up enough money to make the purchase viable. Dip is exponentially cheaper than cigarettes.
I smoked a few Cherry Blend Tiparillo's when girls I dated were smoking cigarettes. But I married a Professional Soprano Singer, and I was afraid she might pull a cigarette out of someone's mouth, throw it down, and "heel stomp" it?
Nothing to it really, just like cooking, a blending of flavors until one gets what he's after.
The hardest part is figuring out how to get the finished cut size right. I used the old fashioned grinder because Copenhagen was first produced in 1822, so I had to assume that they would have used something similar. Of course on a much larger scale.
All in all though, I imagine that the hard work is all done by the farmer, growing and smoking the leaves. And of course that's where the vast majority of the flavor comes from. I've read a couple books written by people who grew up on this sort of tobacco farm and it sounds to be extremely hard work.
Both of my parents smoked, so of course both my brother and I took up that habit at an early age. I'd guess around 11 or so. We'd only smoke 1-2 cigarettes a day, getting them however we could. Stealing from our parents. Stealing from stores. Buying from vending machines at the bowling alley. We'd even break into the C rations my dad would get from Ft Lewis and smoke the little packages of cigarettes that were always included.
We also experimented with chew, dip, and snuff. Redman, Copenhagen, whatever we could get our hands on. Even the old style plug tobacco. Yeah, we were stupid.
I didn't stop smoking until I was 53. I smoked 1 pack a day, but light or ultra light cigarettes. My brother never quit until a few weeks before he died from Covid. He had Emphysema, which contributed of course. When he had money, he smoke Camels (worst cigarettes to smoke), when he was broke, he would buy "pipe" tobacco and roll his own. For the longest time, this was the cheapest way to smoke, until the Democrats figured out a lot of folks were skirting the regressive taxes, and slapped big taxes on that too. For me, smoking in the military was so cheap, especially overseas. In Korea, a carton of cigarettes was like $12 bucks. No taxes. The military stores stateside also sold them sans taxes so the habit was relatively cheap. That is, until about 20 years ago(?) when the military decided to quit making smoking so cheap, and ordered the stores to sell the cigarettes at the same prices as off base. At the end when I quit I was spending over $200 a month on my habit, and made me decide to give it up. Chantix did the trick.
One of the reasons why I won't join the brothers for scotch and cigars. Smoking was such a hard habit to break, and I never want to go though that again.
It was especially difficult with my daughter, as much as I asked her to not start smoking, she did anyway. Luckily she was able to quit while she was still young. But it pained me to think, just like my parents influenced me, her smoking was my fault too.
I'm glad that smoking isn't as popular as it was when I was a kid, and it seemed that just about every adult I knew smoked. Now, it's rare to find someone that imbibes.
I was kind of similar to you, snagged cigarettes out of my dad's pack as a young kid. I never got hooked on them as a kid though, because he smoked unfiltered Camels. I know that Camels are really popular, but there is something about my palate that can't handle them. They are, to my taste, the most disgusting tasting things in the world.
When I do smoke cigarettes, which is very rare, I stick to Marlboro reds. Those to me taste good.
I too tried all the kinds of tobacco you mention, including the dry snuff and the plug. One shot of the dry snuff was enough for a lifetime for me, and to be honest, that plug was so darn hard we couldn't even really figure it out. There was a plug company though with the greatest tobacco name ever. Climax Plug! I bought one of their old advertising posters some years ago. I don't know when they shut down, long before you and I were born I imagine.
Redman I love, but don't use it because it's just so darn messy. I do have a bag in the freezer for rare occasions though. Now it's called America's Best.
As for quitting nicotine, I don't imagine that I ever could, and haven't tried. I just try to use safer forms of it, and do believe that some are much safer than others.
Two of my three daughters smoked cigarettes. One quit a few years ago, so one to go. I've tried to convince her that Zyn would deliver the nicotine she's addicted to, without all the harmful stuff, but to date no dice.
Brother I like the cut of your jib. I look forward to seeing the new hardware. When are you opening the local DIY workshop for Snek Bit Tobacco and raw materials?
That does sound like fun. Maybe host a tempered passions night, incorporating a variety of fun. Maybe beverages, leaf, and poker... possibly supporting a local charity to temper the passions?
All I bought was the tobacco. Everything else is just normal kitchen stuff that I use anyway.
Yes, undoubtedly less expensive. A pound of dark fire cured leaves is about $20. And that's pretty much dry weight. (There is some residual moisture in them.) 1.2 oz of Copenhagen is about $10 by the tin in my town, about half that by the roll up at BJ's. And there is more water in a tin than tobacco.
How much less expensive I don't know, because I don't have a scale, but I imagine that $20 is about two pounds of finished dip.
I will say that I've rather taken a liking to my too fine of cut. It is extremely soft in the mouth, which is nice, and a bit sticky, so it holds together exceptionally well.
If so, as an FYI, I believe that Grizzly Dark is 100% dark fired tobacco (and I have to admit, a darn fine dip). Other Grizzly, I think, is 70% dark fire, the other 30% something like a burley. 100% dark will be super smoky in taste, but I have noticed that the smoke taste is moderating with just a few days 'rest.'
I haven't experimented at all with adding flavorings, but I do know when you add flavorings you need to add a sweetener at the same time. Sugar, brown sugar, or even those little pink packets of fake sugar they bring out with coffee at restaurants. The trick, from what I've seen, is to start with really tiny amounts of flavoring and sweeteners, as of course they can't be removed once added, and apparently a little does a lot.
Yep. In addition to just enjoying the flavor of a regular style dip, the sugar is one of the main reasons I've always avoided flavored dips. I've got to assume that having all that sugar, molasses, or whatever packed against the teeth all day would destroy one's teeth.
I should mention though that money saving wasn't the primary goal with this project. Although I think that is a real and laudable thing.
I've been reading for a long time in forums and the like about guys trying to make their own dip. And they get so carried away with complexity. These huge processes. But I knew that couldn't be right. Copenhagen was started in 1822. Ettan Snus came out in that exact same year. They didn't have all the modern stuff we have now, so I knew that it had to be a much easier process than what lots of those folks were coming up with.
So, I sort of wanted to get creative with it and figure it out. A creative project more than anything. And I did. This is really good dip. And it is not complicated to make, other than figuring out how to chop the leaves up. Of course a modern food processor or even a good blender would make really quick work of that.
I also have a concern about the future of tobacco. Our lawmakers make it more and more difficult to purchase, and expensive, continually. Years ago, here in Washington, they made it a crime for tobacco retailers to do mail order here in the State. As I prefer English style tobacco in a pipe, it became really hard to get. So, I bought a lifetime supply. As little as I smoke, probably enough for a couple lifetimes. I've got a really large supply of cigars too, given the small amount that I smoke. Maybe not a lifetime supply, but close enough.
My problem is that I could never acquire a lifetime supply of dip. I'd need thousands upon thousands of cans.
I believe that it was California that in the last year or two outlawed all flavored tobacco. I don't use the flavored stuff often, but how long will it be before they go after even the regular stuff like Copenhagen?
By learning to make it myself, it's just as good as having a lifetime supply. If need be I can grow the tobacco and cure it with fire just as is done in Kentucky and Tennessee. Rendering me safe from the people who want nothing more than to ensure that no one ever gets any enjoyment out of life.
Great idea. I believe I'm going to follow your suit. I absolutely agreed with this post, which how much government over reach there is, and believe that there is a wide spread spiritual disorder in government at all levels. With the living cost continually on the rise, I've cut back on all of my expenditures and thought about leaving this state. A dip or smoke is the best coping mechanism for many of us.
Sin taxes absolutely crush the poorest among us, most particularly cigarette taxes because they are so high.
According to the CDC, 12.1% of people who make over 100K a year smoke. 26.4% of people who make between 20K and 50K smoke. 32.2% of people who make less than 20K a year smoke.
So we are asking the very poorest to pay massive percentages of their income in so called sin taxes. Drastically more than those who are better off financially.
That's immoral as hell, and these sin taxes are pushed by the type of politician who runs around screaming about how he or she cares so much for the poor.
I agree with you, particularly taxes aimed at our poverty class. Perhaps there is good intent on behalf of thise law makers, and it is within reason to outlaw flavors that would appease kids, like cotton candy and such. People know there are risks of getting oral cancer, and that decision should be left to the people, not government. It's a good argument though.
When I was a kid, I could (and did) buy the stuff at the store without any trouble at all.
But it isn't like that anymore. Some places card my wife when she snags it for me, and she sure as heck looks well over 18.
My view, that is sufficient to keep it out of the hands of kids. Plus, I do doubt that the flavors would be all that appealing to kids anyway. Cotton Candy flavored dip surely isn't going to actually taste like Cotton Candy. The tobacco flavor is always predominant.
Ultimately though, go to a place like 3rd and Pine in Seattle as a kindergartner and they'll sell you heroine, without even trying to hide it, and the government ignores it. But try and buy a pack of cigarettes as a 17 year old and they'll pull the stores license.
For anyone still reading these comments, related to dip, I've always loved the idea of 'dip holsters.' Little holsters to clip onto a belt or bag to hold one's can. These were popular when I was a kid, then I didn't see them for decades.
They had a resurgence over the past years, I think from our warfighters in the middle east.
Now there are loads of them available, primarily out of either Kydex or leather.
I've been searching for a nice leather one for a long time. Unfortunately, those I've tried have looked nice, but been made fairly cheaply.
I finally found a truly excellent one that I can recommend proudly. It's made by McDaniel's Saddles down in Texas. This thing is built like a friggin' tank. Thick and stout leather, fully lined and sewn.
I didn't order it on Etsy, I gave Ron a call at his shop instead. He was really superb to do business with and was able to engrave my full name across the front of the thing.
This essay was interesting, but it hit me in a bad way. There were way too many of my high school friends who were smokers in the 1960's. Of the total 160 in the Class of 1965, about 60 have already passed away. A year ago I lost a brother in law at his age of 78 (he had been one you talked about smoking two packs a day)! I had visited him in a health care facility a week before he died. He could barely move, and barely breathe with the oxygen tubes attached.
And a gal who I used to walk home in Junior High School passed away a month ago from lung cancer. Tobacco is not considered a "sin", but it does "tax" us. BTW, all of this makes me glad I quit smoking at the age of 12 (me and my buddies burned up a borrowed sleeping bag during a backyard campout; it cost us $5 each)!
I am sorry to read about your friends, and hope that you will accept my condolences.
Undoubtedly cigarettes are a shockingly dangerous form of tobacco consumption, and it is really sad that due to cheapness of manufacture and convenience they replaced much older and safer forms of consumption. Hopefully, as a society we have largely learned from that mistake and embraced harm reduction. I think we have now, I do see an awful lot of young people using things like Zyn, but very few smoking cigarettes.
My dad died a few years ago in an accident on our farm, not from cigarettes, but they had made him extremely unhealthy and I believe that had the accident not taken him his two packs a day of Camel Regulars would have. He told me once that he took up cigarettes in the army (Vietnam) because during training those who used cigarettes got plenty of smoke breaks, those who didn't, didn't.
At the moment my youngest daughter smokes cigarettes. I keep trying to convince her to switch to a safer form of nicotine consumption, but so far no dice. I'll keep working on it.
In my own experiments with cigarettes as a kid I never burned anything up, but one of my uncles (who wasn't much older than us) burned down a small barn as a teenager messing with a cigarette. I remember standing at the window in my grandparents house and watching it go up in flames. Now, all these decades later, he won't admit to doing it!
Again, please accept my condolences.
Fortunately, my father chose to give up cigarettes in 1950, when he had a house built for my family. This saving of $$$ allowed him to participate in WV Masonic Grand Lodge and become WV Grand Master in 1968 (and live to the age of 91)! As I recall, cigarettes were included in C-Rations in WWII?
I started with dip as a kid, but at my first 'adult job' almost everyone smoked, so I had a brief stint as a smoker. Like your dad I quit cigarettes when I bought a house. Doing so freed up enough money to make the purchase viable. Dip is exponentially cheaper than cigarettes.
I smoked a few Cherry Blend Tiparillo's when girls I dated were smoking cigarettes. But I married a Professional Soprano Singer, and I was afraid she might pull a cigarette out of someone's mouth, throw it down, and "heel stomp" it?
Never knew how dip was made. Now I do.
Nothing to it really, just like cooking, a blending of flavors until one gets what he's after.
The hardest part is figuring out how to get the finished cut size right. I used the old fashioned grinder because Copenhagen was first produced in 1822, so I had to assume that they would have used something similar. Of course on a much larger scale.
All in all though, I imagine that the hard work is all done by the farmer, growing and smoking the leaves. And of course that's where the vast majority of the flavor comes from. I've read a couple books written by people who grew up on this sort of tobacco farm and it sounds to be extremely hard work.
Brought back memories of my childhood.
Both of my parents smoked, so of course both my brother and I took up that habit at an early age. I'd guess around 11 or so. We'd only smoke 1-2 cigarettes a day, getting them however we could. Stealing from our parents. Stealing from stores. Buying from vending machines at the bowling alley. We'd even break into the C rations my dad would get from Ft Lewis and smoke the little packages of cigarettes that were always included.
We also experimented with chew, dip, and snuff. Redman, Copenhagen, whatever we could get our hands on. Even the old style plug tobacco. Yeah, we were stupid.
I didn't stop smoking until I was 53. I smoked 1 pack a day, but light or ultra light cigarettes. My brother never quit until a few weeks before he died from Covid. He had Emphysema, which contributed of course. When he had money, he smoke Camels (worst cigarettes to smoke), when he was broke, he would buy "pipe" tobacco and roll his own. For the longest time, this was the cheapest way to smoke, until the Democrats figured out a lot of folks were skirting the regressive taxes, and slapped big taxes on that too. For me, smoking in the military was so cheap, especially overseas. In Korea, a carton of cigarettes was like $12 bucks. No taxes. The military stores stateside also sold them sans taxes so the habit was relatively cheap. That is, until about 20 years ago(?) when the military decided to quit making smoking so cheap, and ordered the stores to sell the cigarettes at the same prices as off base. At the end when I quit I was spending over $200 a month on my habit, and made me decide to give it up. Chantix did the trick.
One of the reasons why I won't join the brothers for scotch and cigars. Smoking was such a hard habit to break, and I never want to go though that again.
It was especially difficult with my daughter, as much as I asked her to not start smoking, she did anyway. Luckily she was able to quit while she was still young. But it pained me to think, just like my parents influenced me, her smoking was my fault too.
I'm glad that smoking isn't as popular as it was when I was a kid, and it seemed that just about every adult I knew smoked. Now, it's rare to find someone that imbibes.
I was kind of similar to you, snagged cigarettes out of my dad's pack as a young kid. I never got hooked on them as a kid though, because he smoked unfiltered Camels. I know that Camels are really popular, but there is something about my palate that can't handle them. They are, to my taste, the most disgusting tasting things in the world.
When I do smoke cigarettes, which is very rare, I stick to Marlboro reds. Those to me taste good.
I too tried all the kinds of tobacco you mention, including the dry snuff and the plug. One shot of the dry snuff was enough for a lifetime for me, and to be honest, that plug was so darn hard we couldn't even really figure it out. There was a plug company though with the greatest tobacco name ever. Climax Plug! I bought one of their old advertising posters some years ago. I don't know when they shut down, long before you and I were born I imagine.
Redman I love, but don't use it because it's just so darn messy. I do have a bag in the freezer for rare occasions though. Now it's called America's Best.
As for quitting nicotine, I don't imagine that I ever could, and haven't tried. I just try to use safer forms of it, and do believe that some are much safer than others.
Two of my three daughters smoked cigarettes. One quit a few years ago, so one to go. I've tried to convince her that Zyn would deliver the nicotine she's addicted to, without all the harmful stuff, but to date no dice.
Brother I like the cut of your jib. I look forward to seeing the new hardware. When are you opening the local DIY workshop for Snek Bit Tobacco and raw materials?
Ha, that would be interesting! I don't know though if there are enough dipping Masons in the area to actually pull it off.
I did though once hold a tequila tasting class as a Lodge fundraiser. That was super successful and a great deal of fun!
That does sound like fun. Maybe host a tempered passions night, incorporating a variety of fun. Maybe beverages, leaf, and poker... possibly supporting a local charity to temper the passions?
I think that you are on to something!
After everything you purchased, is it cheaper than buying it from the res? And where do you get tobacco leaves from?
All I bought was the tobacco. Everything else is just normal kitchen stuff that I use anyway.
Yes, undoubtedly less expensive. A pound of dark fire cured leaves is about $20. And that's pretty much dry weight. (There is some residual moisture in them.) 1.2 oz of Copenhagen is about $10 by the tin in my town, about half that by the roll up at BJ's. And there is more water in a tin than tobacco.
How much less expensive I don't know, because I don't have a scale, but I imagine that $20 is about two pounds of finished dip.
I will say that I've rather taken a liking to my too fine of cut. It is extremely soft in the mouth, which is nice, and a bit sticky, so it holds together exceptionally well.
I'll email you a source.
Thank-you! I'm definitely going to make my own as you had shared.
As I recall you dip Grizzly?
If so, as an FYI, I believe that Grizzly Dark is 100% dark fired tobacco (and I have to admit, a darn fine dip). Other Grizzly, I think, is 70% dark fire, the other 30% something like a burley. 100% dark will be super smoky in taste, but I have noticed that the smoke taste is moderating with just a few days 'rest.'
I haven't experimented at all with adding flavorings, but I do know when you add flavorings you need to add a sweetener at the same time. Sugar, brown sugar, or even those little pink packets of fake sugar they bring out with coffee at restaurants. The trick, from what I've seen, is to start with really tiny amounts of flavoring and sweeteners, as of course they can't be removed once added, and apparently a little does a lot.
It was instilled in me from a young age, that sugar will rot your teeth out. Being i didndt get much sweets growing up, sugar taste awful to me.
Yep. In addition to just enjoying the flavor of a regular style dip, the sugar is one of the main reasons I've always avoided flavored dips. I've got to assume that having all that sugar, molasses, or whatever packed against the teeth all day would destroy one's teeth.
I should mention though that money saving wasn't the primary goal with this project. Although I think that is a real and laudable thing.
I've been reading for a long time in forums and the like about guys trying to make their own dip. And they get so carried away with complexity. These huge processes. But I knew that couldn't be right. Copenhagen was started in 1822. Ettan Snus came out in that exact same year. They didn't have all the modern stuff we have now, so I knew that it had to be a much easier process than what lots of those folks were coming up with.
So, I sort of wanted to get creative with it and figure it out. A creative project more than anything. And I did. This is really good dip. And it is not complicated to make, other than figuring out how to chop the leaves up. Of course a modern food processor or even a good blender would make really quick work of that.
I also have a concern about the future of tobacco. Our lawmakers make it more and more difficult to purchase, and expensive, continually. Years ago, here in Washington, they made it a crime for tobacco retailers to do mail order here in the State. As I prefer English style tobacco in a pipe, it became really hard to get. So, I bought a lifetime supply. As little as I smoke, probably enough for a couple lifetimes. I've got a really large supply of cigars too, given the small amount that I smoke. Maybe not a lifetime supply, but close enough.
My problem is that I could never acquire a lifetime supply of dip. I'd need thousands upon thousands of cans.
I believe that it was California that in the last year or two outlawed all flavored tobacco. I don't use the flavored stuff often, but how long will it be before they go after even the regular stuff like Copenhagen?
By learning to make it myself, it's just as good as having a lifetime supply. If need be I can grow the tobacco and cure it with fire just as is done in Kentucky and Tennessee. Rendering me safe from the people who want nothing more than to ensure that no one ever gets any enjoyment out of life.
Great idea. I believe I'm going to follow your suit. I absolutely agreed with this post, which how much government over reach there is, and believe that there is a wide spread spiritual disorder in government at all levels. With the living cost continually on the rise, I've cut back on all of my expenditures and thought about leaving this state. A dip or smoke is the best coping mechanism for many of us.
Here is where I fear we will end up, sooner rather than later:
https://www.koin.com/news/oregon-city-resolution-ban-flavored-tobacco-products-state-sb-702/
Sin taxes absolutely crush the poorest among us, most particularly cigarette taxes because they are so high.
According to the CDC, 12.1% of people who make over 100K a year smoke. 26.4% of people who make between 20K and 50K smoke. 32.2% of people who make less than 20K a year smoke.
So we are asking the very poorest to pay massive percentages of their income in so called sin taxes. Drastically more than those who are better off financially.
That's immoral as hell, and these sin taxes are pushed by the type of politician who runs around screaming about how he or she cares so much for the poor.
I agree with you, particularly taxes aimed at our poverty class. Perhaps there is good intent on behalf of thise law makers, and it is within reason to outlaw flavors that would appease kids, like cotton candy and such. People know there are risks of getting oral cancer, and that decision should be left to the people, not government. It's a good argument though.
When I was a kid, I could (and did) buy the stuff at the store without any trouble at all.
But it isn't like that anymore. Some places card my wife when she snags it for me, and she sure as heck looks well over 18.
My view, that is sufficient to keep it out of the hands of kids. Plus, I do doubt that the flavors would be all that appealing to kids anyway. Cotton Candy flavored dip surely isn't going to actually taste like Cotton Candy. The tobacco flavor is always predominant.
Ultimately though, go to a place like 3rd and Pine in Seattle as a kindergartner and they'll sell you heroine, without even trying to hide it, and the government ignores it. But try and buy a pack of cigarettes as a 17 year old and they'll pull the stores license.
Sad but true
For anyone still reading these comments, related to dip, I've always loved the idea of 'dip holsters.' Little holsters to clip onto a belt or bag to hold one's can. These were popular when I was a kid, then I didn't see them for decades.
They had a resurgence over the past years, I think from our warfighters in the middle east.
Now there are loads of them available, primarily out of either Kydex or leather.
I've been searching for a nice leather one for a long time. Unfortunately, those I've tried have looked nice, but been made fairly cheaply.
I finally found a truly excellent one that I can recommend proudly. It's made by McDaniel's Saddles down in Texas. This thing is built like a friggin' tank. Thick and stout leather, fully lined and sewn.
https://www.etsy.com/listing/1089076086/leather-snuff-can-holster
I didn't order it on Etsy, I gave Ron a call at his shop instead. He was really superb to do business with and was able to engrave my full name across the front of the thing.
Super highly recommended.