Part of the math is, do you have a reasonably recent assessment of the building, and required maintenance or upgrades?
Do the foundations require repairs? The roof? The building envelope? Plumbing & electrical & ADA accessibility? Elevator, kitchen, plumbing? HVAC and insulation?
Cleaning and painting regularly so people want to spend time in the building?
Are we willing and able to put energy into maintenance or improvements?
We, too, struggle with this conundrum. Our beloved lodge, built as a Second Degree Lodge, still has an active stereopticon whereby we project our lectures upon a screen that lowers in the East. The 100-year-old building just received a new boiler and underwent tuckpointing at a cost of 450K. Property taxes are our highest expense, followed by utility costs.
I believe that too much time, money, and effort go into maintaining our beautiful sacred space and that it takes away from our primary mission of pursuing masonic knowledge. We have dabbled with selling the building and downsizing our lodge, but I fear nostalgia and complacency will win the day.
What I do know is that our current model of maintaining the building with membership dues and rentals is unsustainable. If our lodge chooses to ignore this economic reality and make difficult decisions now, time will do it for us.
I would highly suggest that the temple board should file to have their property taxes eliminated. Quite a few lodges in my area have done so successfully and is a huge payoff once completed.
I really appreciate your 2nd and 3rd paragraphs. Our primary mission is to build men through pursuit of knowledge; and as stated in the EA lecture, a lodge is an assemblage of Masons (and not the edifice.)
I also think that too many Brothers have no concept of the true cost of building and operating a building in today's economy. I would guestimate that to build a lodge today it would require at least $2m in land acquisition, site prep, and construction costs. To operate the building (current and future maintenance, utilities, insurance), maybe a quarter million per year. Now, assuming the membership is 100, you're looking at an assessment of $22.5k per member, which is a bit more than my current dues of $100 per year. My point I guess is that the Brothers of yesteryear spent considerable sums to build these temples, and too many over the years have lived off that seed corn. Imagine if 75 years ago, every dues assessment included a required contribution to a building fund. Of course if wishes were fishes . . .
I have seen a couple of good ideas that might be helpful. The Scottish Rite Temple in Guthrie OK established a 501(c)(3) tax exempt Temple Improvement Fund. I've wondered if the Grand Lodge could establish a similar mechanism so that a well-heeled Brother could contribute and target the gift toward his local lodge. As many of us are aging a planned gift might be doable and appreciated. I'm also familiar with Mother Churches that provide zero- or low-interest loans to local churches with a credible plan of operation. That allows for some flexibility in building or making improvements. And to be honest, I think MW Cameron is right that our future is having regional Masonic Centers shared by several lodges. A half-hour drive is reasonable. My wish though, if we go that route, is that we as a Grand Lodge do some serious strategic planning in this endeavor - rather than wind up with a mediocre result through attrition.
The grand lodge should not be involving themselves in local lodge and temple board matters, except in an advisory capacity if asked. Recently the GL of Washington adopted rules governing the sale of lodge real estate, just to mainly combat potential fraud. Otherwise, it’s the lodge and temple board business and no one else’s.
There are ways lodges can help themselves. Get their property taxes exempt. Aggressively rent their space. Apply for grants from the state for expensive repairs. Fund raise.
I am a firm believer that masonry would be much better off if the other groups like the Shriners didn’t exist. At least here in Washington the shrine has millions of dollars of equity. Just think what the craft lodges could do with all that money. But it’s the groups like the shrine that attract those big endowments and gifts from their members, not the blue lodges.
Not knocking their charitable work. Just noting the disparity between craft lodge funding and concordant bodies wealth.
I appreciate your diligence in running the numbers. Your calculations for new buildout and member commitment are correct. Yes, we are enjoying beautiful lodge buildings via the hard work and vision of our past brothers. However, as you point out, the economics have changed. Our lodge was built in 1911 for the cost of $15,000. Today, we pay more than that original sum in annual property taxes. In fact, when our lodge was built, there was not even a national income tax. So past brothers were freer to dedicate their resources than today.
Masonry will not fade away. The principles of our foundation are too strong and our mission too necessary to the cultivation of good men. However, I believe we must come to terms with the fact that the "golden age" of our beautiful edifice has past and we must learn to operate in our lodges in the new economic realities we now endure.
MWPGM Bailey, the most local Lodge Hall here within about 2 miles, I visited once when I retired here in Florida. They had trouble filling the officer's chairs, so I never visited again. Recently, this Lodge sold their residential building to about 1/3 of the members of our local United Methodist Church (the 1/3 started their own "Grace Methodist Church"). That 1/3rd did not support the new WOKE views of the United Methodist Church leaders. Hmmm... I bet the Grace Methodist Church Chancel Choir is not very full of qualified singers?
MW, I recognize that many lodges are groping with questions like the one you posed, and I don't take lightly that preserving a long standing lodge building fosters pride among the Brothers. However, I believe that by the time the question of "should we keep it" is on the table that the lodge is already suffering from EDIFICE COMPLEX (see what I did there?)
Brother Nelson highlights the significant problem with aging buildings: " too much time, money, and effort go into maintaining our beautiful sacred space and that it takes away from our primary mission of pursuing masonic knowledge."
Masonry isn't a building, and if you're doing it right it's not even a place.
Pride of ownership runs deep in our country. It reflects out quest for independence and identity. These emotions often cloud the reality that the burden of the pride and quest become unsustainable.
We too often react to this dichotomy by continuing what we're doing or sell the asset. Other solutions are often never discussed. For instance; sale of the building which includes the lease back of a smaller, remodeled Lodge room, storage and dining area. Or, perhaps, just the option of opening up unused Lodge space for commercial rental. Or even starting a business of your own using unused space.
These and other options can preserve independence and identity while enhancing brotherhood through positive action.
One thing my Lodge has discussed in the past, amongst ourselves and our primary renter, is turning the building into a condo and selling the commercial spaces. Again, replacing our rental income with investment income.
As a survivor of heading two different committees that recommended the sale of Masonic property, I can say it is a difficult task indeed. In each case, we relied on the opinions of paid professionals for property values, building maintenance & renovation, historical preservation, and other expert advice to provide detailed projections. Despite all this carefully compiled research, in each instance, we were met with disbelief, claims that we had not considered all possibilities, anger, and, with one proposed sale, conspiracy theories suggesting that the committee members had a hidden agenda that would benefit them from the sale.
I have long been an advocate of the thought that if your Masonic property is not contributing to your purpose as a Masonic organization, taking all your time to manage and maintain, and it has become a financial burden or will become one, then sell it. If you have the opportunity to replace it, spend a great deal of time before buying or building to determine if its use will be beneficial and if its long-term costs are sustainable. If you can't justify owning a property, rent from someone and concentrate on your Masonic purpose.
MW Brother, I am torn where this topic is concerned. I hate the idea of losing history and yet one more piece of Masonic heritage. Though, if a Lodge cannot be sustained, it bears the risk of breaking its membership.
I imagine approaching this from the perspective of a serious medical condition is the right idea. If keeping the “leg” means the body dies, then that isn’t an answer, though cutting too much too quickly has its own complications and consequences.
I wish we faced a different reality for many of our buildings and structures, though it seems bleak at times. I hope that we can learn from this point in history should we secure new accommodations, or renew old ones, to prevent these conversations and conditions from being repeated again.
I hope that our Brethren can come together to find viable solutions in these challenging times.
I am at a time where I am starting over from two suit cases, so the idea of a fresh start is a bit appealing to me. Cycling back to previous comments I have made in regard to masonry’s current situation.
I am going to have to take my own advice and make a tavern that also serves as a lodge.
Here I am sitting in an oblong pub gracefully oriented east to west. Plenty of people and atmosphere. A place of public engagement.
I remember being told Kelso Lodge used
to be a place where people went to vote. There was a dentist office, and meat market down stairs. Honestly I couldn’t even imagine that now.
So why not, some of the earliest meeting in the US were held in Tun Tavern, also the birthplace of the marine corps.
Turn the profit into purpose. Be so engaging you bring people to ponder the oh so needed question. Keeping surreptitiousness contained for the tiled mosaic pavement.
Meetings need to be fun and engaging. Let’s face it, most that I have been to aren’t. Dare I say Vapid.
It’s usually show up, hurry through the steps the business meeting and go home, maybe a drink or so afterwards.
Imagine walking out of a business
meeting to a full bar, imagine the presence it would create. Imagine playing a round of pool or darts afterwards in a masonic owned bar with sportscoats and lapel pins blazing.
We live in a feel good culture. Take advantage of the surge and prevail.
Part of the math is, do you have a reasonably recent assessment of the building, and required maintenance or upgrades?
Do the foundations require repairs? The roof? The building envelope? Plumbing & electrical & ADA accessibility? Elevator, kitchen, plumbing? HVAC and insulation?
Cleaning and painting regularly so people want to spend time in the building?
Are we willing and able to put energy into maintenance or improvements?
We, too, struggle with this conundrum. Our beloved lodge, built as a Second Degree Lodge, still has an active stereopticon whereby we project our lectures upon a screen that lowers in the East. The 100-year-old building just received a new boiler and underwent tuckpointing at a cost of 450K. Property taxes are our highest expense, followed by utility costs.
I believe that too much time, money, and effort go into maintaining our beautiful sacred space and that it takes away from our primary mission of pursuing masonic knowledge. We have dabbled with selling the building and downsizing our lodge, but I fear nostalgia and complacency will win the day.
What I do know is that our current model of maintaining the building with membership dues and rentals is unsustainable. If our lodge chooses to ignore this economic reality and make difficult decisions now, time will do it for us.
I would highly suggest that the temple board should file to have their property taxes eliminated. Quite a few lodges in my area have done so successfully and is a huge payoff once completed.
Sadly, in St. Paul, MN such relief is not possible.
I really appreciate your 2nd and 3rd paragraphs. Our primary mission is to build men through pursuit of knowledge; and as stated in the EA lecture, a lodge is an assemblage of Masons (and not the edifice.)
I also think that too many Brothers have no concept of the true cost of building and operating a building in today's economy. I would guestimate that to build a lodge today it would require at least $2m in land acquisition, site prep, and construction costs. To operate the building (current and future maintenance, utilities, insurance), maybe a quarter million per year. Now, assuming the membership is 100, you're looking at an assessment of $22.5k per member, which is a bit more than my current dues of $100 per year. My point I guess is that the Brothers of yesteryear spent considerable sums to build these temples, and too many over the years have lived off that seed corn. Imagine if 75 years ago, every dues assessment included a required contribution to a building fund. Of course if wishes were fishes . . .
I have seen a couple of good ideas that might be helpful. The Scottish Rite Temple in Guthrie OK established a 501(c)(3) tax exempt Temple Improvement Fund. I've wondered if the Grand Lodge could establish a similar mechanism so that a well-heeled Brother could contribute and target the gift toward his local lodge. As many of us are aging a planned gift might be doable and appreciated. I'm also familiar with Mother Churches that provide zero- or low-interest loans to local churches with a credible plan of operation. That allows for some flexibility in building or making improvements. And to be honest, I think MW Cameron is right that our future is having regional Masonic Centers shared by several lodges. A half-hour drive is reasonable. My wish though, if we go that route, is that we as a Grand Lodge do some serious strategic planning in this endeavor - rather than wind up with a mediocre result through attrition.
The grand lodge should not be involving themselves in local lodge and temple board matters, except in an advisory capacity if asked. Recently the GL of Washington adopted rules governing the sale of lodge real estate, just to mainly combat potential fraud. Otherwise, it’s the lodge and temple board business and no one else’s.
There are ways lodges can help themselves. Get their property taxes exempt. Aggressively rent their space. Apply for grants from the state for expensive repairs. Fund raise.
I am a firm believer that masonry would be much better off if the other groups like the Shriners didn’t exist. At least here in Washington the shrine has millions of dollars of equity. Just think what the craft lodges could do with all that money. But it’s the groups like the shrine that attract those big endowments and gifts from their members, not the blue lodges.
Not knocking their charitable work. Just noting the disparity between craft lodge funding and concordant bodies wealth.
I appreciate your diligence in running the numbers. Your calculations for new buildout and member commitment are correct. Yes, we are enjoying beautiful lodge buildings via the hard work and vision of our past brothers. However, as you point out, the economics have changed. Our lodge was built in 1911 for the cost of $15,000. Today, we pay more than that original sum in annual property taxes. In fact, when our lodge was built, there was not even a national income tax. So past brothers were freer to dedicate their resources than today.
Masonry will not fade away. The principles of our foundation are too strong and our mission too necessary to the cultivation of good men. However, I believe we must come to terms with the fact that the "golden age" of our beautiful edifice has past and we must learn to operate in our lodges in the new economic realities we now endure.
MWPGM Bailey, the most local Lodge Hall here within about 2 miles, I visited once when I retired here in Florida. They had trouble filling the officer's chairs, so I never visited again. Recently, this Lodge sold their residential building to about 1/3 of the members of our local United Methodist Church (the 1/3 started their own "Grace Methodist Church"). That 1/3rd did not support the new WOKE views of the United Methodist Church leaders. Hmmm... I bet the Grace Methodist Church Chancel Choir is not very full of qualified singers?
MW, I recognize that many lodges are groping with questions like the one you posed, and I don't take lightly that preserving a long standing lodge building fosters pride among the Brothers. However, I believe that by the time the question of "should we keep it" is on the table that the lodge is already suffering from EDIFICE COMPLEX (see what I did there?)
Brother Nelson highlights the significant problem with aging buildings: " too much time, money, and effort go into maintaining our beautiful sacred space and that it takes away from our primary mission of pursuing masonic knowledge."
Masonry isn't a building, and if you're doing it right it's not even a place.
Pride of ownership runs deep in our country. It reflects out quest for independence and identity. These emotions often cloud the reality that the burden of the pride and quest become unsustainable.
We too often react to this dichotomy by continuing what we're doing or sell the asset. Other solutions are often never discussed. For instance; sale of the building which includes the lease back of a smaller, remodeled Lodge room, storage and dining area. Or, perhaps, just the option of opening up unused Lodge space for commercial rental. Or even starting a business of your own using unused space.
These and other options can preserve independence and identity while enhancing brotherhood through positive action.
WB Brian Thomas
Myrtle Lodge #108
One thing my Lodge has discussed in the past, amongst ourselves and our primary renter, is turning the building into a condo and selling the commercial spaces. Again, replacing our rental income with investment income.
As a survivor of heading two different committees that recommended the sale of Masonic property, I can say it is a difficult task indeed. In each case, we relied on the opinions of paid professionals for property values, building maintenance & renovation, historical preservation, and other expert advice to provide detailed projections. Despite all this carefully compiled research, in each instance, we were met with disbelief, claims that we had not considered all possibilities, anger, and, with one proposed sale, conspiracy theories suggesting that the committee members had a hidden agenda that would benefit them from the sale.
I have long been an advocate of the thought that if your Masonic property is not contributing to your purpose as a Masonic organization, taking all your time to manage and maintain, and it has become a financial burden or will become one, then sell it. If you have the opportunity to replace it, spend a great deal of time before buying or building to determine if its use will be beneficial and if its long-term costs are sustainable. If you can't justify owning a property, rent from someone and concentrate on your Masonic purpose.
MW Brother, I am torn where this topic is concerned. I hate the idea of losing history and yet one more piece of Masonic heritage. Though, if a Lodge cannot be sustained, it bears the risk of breaking its membership.
I imagine approaching this from the perspective of a serious medical condition is the right idea. If keeping the “leg” means the body dies, then that isn’t an answer, though cutting too much too quickly has its own complications and consequences.
I wish we faced a different reality for many of our buildings and structures, though it seems bleak at times. I hope that we can learn from this point in history should we secure new accommodations, or renew old ones, to prevent these conversations and conditions from being repeated again.
I hope that our Brethren can come together to find viable solutions in these challenging times.
I am at a time where I am starting over from two suit cases, so the idea of a fresh start is a bit appealing to me. Cycling back to previous comments I have made in regard to masonry’s current situation.
I am going to have to take my own advice and make a tavern that also serves as a lodge.
Here I am sitting in an oblong pub gracefully oriented east to west. Plenty of people and atmosphere. A place of public engagement.
I remember being told Kelso Lodge used
to be a place where people went to vote. There was a dentist office, and meat market down stairs. Honestly I couldn’t even imagine that now.
So why not, some of the earliest meeting in the US were held in Tun Tavern, also the birthplace of the marine corps.
Turn the profit into purpose. Be so engaging you bring people to ponder the oh so needed question. Keeping surreptitiousness contained for the tiled mosaic pavement.
Meetings need to be fun and engaging. Let’s face it, most that I have been to aren’t. Dare I say Vapid.
It’s usually show up, hurry through the steps the business meeting and go home, maybe a drink or so afterwards.
Imagine walking out of a business
meeting to a full bar, imagine the presence it would create. Imagine playing a round of pool or darts afterwards in a masonic owned bar with sportscoats and lapel pins blazing.
We live in a feel good culture. Take advantage of the surge and prevail.