We still have an advantage over here in UK with our local pubs although the economic situation is causing closures. They are the hub of the community and the beer is good.
I find it kind of funny that when I was younger my parents often warned us of the dangerous, and perhaps "monstrous" individuals we might find in bars. I think you're right, the real monsters are found in restaurants!
All jesting aside, I think some of the most interesting conversations I have had outside of a Lodge, have been in bars and taverns. Often from those seeking meaning, absolution, or reprieve from their daily grind.
I find it interesting that many of our past Brethren met in taverns, where conversation, company and libations run freely... You are correct, we do need to offer something to the Brethren who come through our doors and find ways to be hospitable in accommodating the various forms of Masonry they seek.
Of the three taverns mentioned in this post, two certainly have 'dangerous' reputations. But, alas, those reputations are carried forward from decades and decades ago. Neither are anything like that today. It's funny though, some people still avoid them for those reasons.
For my money, Freemasonry was harmed when it was moved out of the back rooms of taverns (or other business establishments) and into purpose built buildings. For a number of reasons.
Imagine the mystique of watching a bunch of Brothers walking into or up to a private room, disappearing for a time, then returning. I imagine there were questions a plenty from interested and curious parties. I also imagine that we had much closer relationships with the community when we met in spaces that supported them, as well as encouraged familiarity and engagement.
I think it would be awesome if we could get the appropriate GL authorization to do courtesy work in Tun Tavern. As a way to revisit earlier times, and to revitalize old traditions.
It might also be cool to see if any old bars or taverns locally might offer similar accommodations, for similar reasons.
In that case you would need approval of two Grand Lodges. Approval from our GM to do our work in the other Jurisdiction, and approval from that other Jurisdiction's GM to do our work in his Jurisdiction.
Sounds complicated, but it can be done, and was done by a Washington Lodge not all that long ago. They performed a Degree in a Lodge Building within a different Jurisdiction. And of course it happens fairly regularly at our Masonic Park, when we somewhat regularly invite other Lodges from foreign Jurisdictions to perform a MM Degree in our Park.
I’ve gotten away from the bar scene a long time ago. In the military the bases always had clubs you could hang out in. It was relatively inexpensive, and getting together after work to share a pitcher of beer and a few games of pool was always a great time.
But since leaving the military, I stopped that sort of behavior. Number one reason was the expense, and number two, I have no desire to get a DUI, or worse, cause an accident where people get hurt. I see no reason to spend $7 on a beer that cost the bar $.30 to pour. And the cost of cocktails are insane. Nope, I’m quite happy to sit in the evenings with my highball glass and relax, and not deal with crowds, noise, and lung juice from the vapers. Saves me time, money, and possible jail time.
Expense is something I've fairly frequently considered. When it comes to meals specifically, not drinks. Going out for meals is our thing, not drinks, so that's what I've thought about.
Melinda can feed us, and feed us well, for maybe $150 per week. It used to be a lot less, but food inflation has been really extreme the past few years. But, when I cook, I can't do that. When I'm cooking dinner and head to the store to get what I need for it, seemingly it's always at least $50 bucks. The difference of course is that she plans in advance and I don't, alas, I'm not a planner. We can, given the places we frequent, go out to dinner for a bit less money than I can cook the same dinner at home. Of course if she is cooking, going out is significantly more.
As you know, Nick and I knew the owners of all three of the bars you mention. Now it’s one, as bars 1 and 2 have new ownership. Rough crowds in 1 and 2, including a drive-by shooting in front of bar 2 about 15-20 years ago. 3 was/is more of a blue-collar worker bar. Not bad people at all in No. 3.
I get where you’re going with the kids situation on two fronts. The quick one was when last year’s Centralia WM and I went to Applebee’s for dinner, and had to talk loud over a handful of kids who were quite literally trashing the table down the way from us. Food all over the place, with waitresses having to walk around it to avoid mashing it into the carpet fibers. Parents paid it no mind. We both thought of you with that, and conceded you are right on the concept of eating at places where there’s no Chuck-E-Cheese factor. The more pronounced version of my take on kids is 31 years in a barbershop. I dread when a young boy comes in the shop, particularly if they’re only accompanied by their mother if she’s younger than 30. It’s like letting a bobcat loose in your shop. They don’t mind, they don’t sit still, they squirm, and their mother either is on her phone or giving ME dirty looks because the haircut isn’t coming out the way she wants it. Like I mentioned before – “My little Johnny” is a saint. With a father? Different story, they’re more disciplined. And if the boy comes in with either his Grandfather OR his Grandmother, same idea. More disciplined. But they still squirm, whine, and complain. Just not as badly. And with the ones with their young mothers, they never return. It’s a half-hour of my life I’ll never get back.
Back to the Bars. There’s one in the Lacey area (I won’t name it) that’s a super-dive. I was in there with a couple of well-known Brothers whom I also won’t name covering a Lodge matter. Things got rough quickly, as a couple had a few too many to drink … okay, the wife had WAY too many. She was slobbering drunk, and her husband is one of those mean drunks. She left, and he headed to the bathroom. They both returned, and the bar immediately started smelling like puke. Now she was so drunk she couldn’t talk. He noted she wasn’t carrying her phone, and started yelling at her. “Hey, where’s your f!cking phone? WHERE THE F!CK’S YOUR PHONE, B!TCH!” and it escalated. I looked at the two I was with. They were not only Masons, but they were mid-west gentlemen. I KNEW if that husband took a swing at his wife and hit her, they would take action. I looked for the door. I wanted nothing to do with that crap. One of the Brothers quietly pointed out that the woman’s phone was in her right hip pocket, but she was so wasted she couldn’t communicate. And he started yelling at her again. And again it escalated. Same words as above. He did that three times. They finally left, and the puke smell went away back to the smell of the food I ordered. I was relieved, but not my stomach, as the food was “Greasy spoon” fare. When we left, I admitted to the two Brothers that if a brawl started I was going to bee-line out and walk back to my car (I was parked a couple of miles away, but I walk that for lunch) and let them deal with the fallout. They asked me where my sense of chivalry was, and I said Not my town, Not my bar, Not my crowd, Not my fight, Not my problem.
And my antacid was in my car. You obviously know what I think of dive bars.
Bar one was still pretty darn rough when I started stopping by on occasion for a burger. It never gave me any concern, but I didn't take Melinda in there until it underwent its transition.
I was never in Bar two until it was taken over by the new ownership. Of course it is fancy now, I've seen many leading members of our community in there a great many times. But, while it started of really great, it went all to hell more recently as staffing numbers never ramped up as it got busier. Now it's a sit and hope that you don't actually starve to death before they manage to get food on the table.
Bar three is great! As long as it isn't too late at night. Food is always excellent, fast, and very reasonably priced. Of the three though, it is by far the roughest looking.
Now a new bar has opened way up on north Tower. It's nice looking inside, and the food is great, but it really is rough. Reading the police blotter, I see that there are problems there. Anyway, the one time we stopped in Melinda caught a weird vibe, so we haven't been back.
To my mind, I'd much rather have the occasional drunk get thrown out of a bar than the screaming little monsters with parents who will not look up from their phones. Dive bars take care of that, as do places that young parents can't afford.
I had to go find a slang dictionary ... to me a "dive bar" is a place in a tropical environemnt with lots of folks in swim suits carting their diving knives on their legs ... and dripping all over everything ... and picking various marine plants and animals out of their swimsuits or wetsuits ...
so i guess this intended defintion is the old 20's context of "what place is a dive" ... meaning sleezy and inellegant and kind of scuzzy ... rofl ...
cool ...
i myself do not drink or really like to go places where alcohol is the primary item being consumed ... folks ... adult folks ... become monsters too with too much alcohol or other substances in them ...
perhaps we need to bring back the old fashioned "athletic club" ... with restaurant and bar for those who want ... swimming pool and gym ... and lots of "club rooms" to sit and chat in peace in comfy chairs as staff tends to our needs ... no kids allowed ... but peace and gentle behavior the order of the day ...
mens clubs are good too ...
i used to belong to a couple ...
ones with behavior standards ... more than dress standards ... are nicer ...
bars are ok if that is your preference ...
chuckle
i used to frequent a burlesque "dive bar" ... simply because it was a kind of "anything goes - just respect others" kind of place ... a place where one can say what you will , be what you will ... pick your nose or suck your toes ... without criticism ... is nice ...
I don't think that the fancy athletic club would be for me, but a nice Yacht Club would do it, assuming that they would let my boat less self in. Or, if we are bringing things back from the days of old, I fondly remember nice restaurants in department stores!
We still have an advantage over here in UK with our local pubs although the economic situation is causing closures. They are the hub of the community and the beer is good.
Someday I'll make it over so that I can experience your pubs myself!
Make sure you bring a driver with you who abstains . Don't want to spoil your experience Bro
I avoid driving as much as I can here, and we drive on the proper side of the road! I wouldn't dream of driving backwards over there! 🤣😎🤣
Och Away You go ! We were here first and drive on the correct side 😊
Now, Brother, them's fightin' words! 😄
I find it kind of funny that when I was younger my parents often warned us of the dangerous, and perhaps "monstrous" individuals we might find in bars. I think you're right, the real monsters are found in restaurants!
All jesting aside, I think some of the most interesting conversations I have had outside of a Lodge, have been in bars and taverns. Often from those seeking meaning, absolution, or reprieve from their daily grind.
I find it interesting that many of our past Brethren met in taverns, where conversation, company and libations run freely... You are correct, we do need to offer something to the Brethren who come through our doors and find ways to be hospitable in accommodating the various forms of Masonry they seek.
Of the three taverns mentioned in this post, two certainly have 'dangerous' reputations. But, alas, those reputations are carried forward from decades and decades ago. Neither are anything like that today. It's funny though, some people still avoid them for those reasons.
For my money, Freemasonry was harmed when it was moved out of the back rooms of taverns (or other business establishments) and into purpose built buildings. For a number of reasons.
Imagine the mystique of watching a bunch of Brothers walking into or up to a private room, disappearing for a time, then returning. I imagine there were questions a plenty from interested and curious parties. I also imagine that we had much closer relationships with the community when we met in spaces that supported them, as well as encouraged familiarity and engagement.
Exactly! It seems that over a long stretch of time we sought to isolate our Lodges from the broader community instead of integrating into it.
I think it would be awesome if we could get the appropriate GL authorization to do courtesy work in Tun Tavern. As a way to revisit earlier times, and to revitalize old traditions.
It might also be cool to see if any old bars or taverns locally might offer similar accommodations, for similar reasons.
In that case you would need approval of two Grand Lodges. Approval from our GM to do our work in the other Jurisdiction, and approval from that other Jurisdiction's GM to do our work in his Jurisdiction.
Sounds complicated, but it can be done, and was done by a Washington Lodge not all that long ago. They performed a Degree in a Lodge Building within a different Jurisdiction. And of course it happens fairly regularly at our Masonic Park, when we somewhat regularly invite other Lodges from foreign Jurisdictions to perform a MM Degree in our Park.
Absolutely. I will keep that in mind if I can get the stars to align and a willing victim! 😉
I was bummed to miss the one in Oregon, having only just been initiated myself. I am excited for the next outdoor degree though!
I’ve gotten away from the bar scene a long time ago. In the military the bases always had clubs you could hang out in. It was relatively inexpensive, and getting together after work to share a pitcher of beer and a few games of pool was always a great time.
But since leaving the military, I stopped that sort of behavior. Number one reason was the expense, and number two, I have no desire to get a DUI, or worse, cause an accident where people get hurt. I see no reason to spend $7 on a beer that cost the bar $.30 to pour. And the cost of cocktails are insane. Nope, I’m quite happy to sit in the evenings with my highball glass and relax, and not deal with crowds, noise, and lung juice from the vapers. Saves me time, money, and possible jail time.
Expense is something I've fairly frequently considered. When it comes to meals specifically, not drinks. Going out for meals is our thing, not drinks, so that's what I've thought about.
Melinda can feed us, and feed us well, for maybe $150 per week. It used to be a lot less, but food inflation has been really extreme the past few years. But, when I cook, I can't do that. When I'm cooking dinner and head to the store to get what I need for it, seemingly it's always at least $50 bucks. The difference of course is that she plans in advance and I don't, alas, I'm not a planner. We can, given the places we frequent, go out to dinner for a bit less money than I can cook the same dinner at home. Of course if she is cooking, going out is significantly more.
Dive bars.
As you know, Nick and I knew the owners of all three of the bars you mention. Now it’s one, as bars 1 and 2 have new ownership. Rough crowds in 1 and 2, including a drive-by shooting in front of bar 2 about 15-20 years ago. 3 was/is more of a blue-collar worker bar. Not bad people at all in No. 3.
I get where you’re going with the kids situation on two fronts. The quick one was when last year’s Centralia WM and I went to Applebee’s for dinner, and had to talk loud over a handful of kids who were quite literally trashing the table down the way from us. Food all over the place, with waitresses having to walk around it to avoid mashing it into the carpet fibers. Parents paid it no mind. We both thought of you with that, and conceded you are right on the concept of eating at places where there’s no Chuck-E-Cheese factor. The more pronounced version of my take on kids is 31 years in a barbershop. I dread when a young boy comes in the shop, particularly if they’re only accompanied by their mother if she’s younger than 30. It’s like letting a bobcat loose in your shop. They don’t mind, they don’t sit still, they squirm, and their mother either is on her phone or giving ME dirty looks because the haircut isn’t coming out the way she wants it. Like I mentioned before – “My little Johnny” is a saint. With a father? Different story, they’re more disciplined. And if the boy comes in with either his Grandfather OR his Grandmother, same idea. More disciplined. But they still squirm, whine, and complain. Just not as badly. And with the ones with their young mothers, they never return. It’s a half-hour of my life I’ll never get back.
Back to the Bars. There’s one in the Lacey area (I won’t name it) that’s a super-dive. I was in there with a couple of well-known Brothers whom I also won’t name covering a Lodge matter. Things got rough quickly, as a couple had a few too many to drink … okay, the wife had WAY too many. She was slobbering drunk, and her husband is one of those mean drunks. She left, and he headed to the bathroom. They both returned, and the bar immediately started smelling like puke. Now she was so drunk she couldn’t talk. He noted she wasn’t carrying her phone, and started yelling at her. “Hey, where’s your f!cking phone? WHERE THE F!CK’S YOUR PHONE, B!TCH!” and it escalated. I looked at the two I was with. They were not only Masons, but they were mid-west gentlemen. I KNEW if that husband took a swing at his wife and hit her, they would take action. I looked for the door. I wanted nothing to do with that crap. One of the Brothers quietly pointed out that the woman’s phone was in her right hip pocket, but she was so wasted she couldn’t communicate. And he started yelling at her again. And again it escalated. Same words as above. He did that three times. They finally left, and the puke smell went away back to the smell of the food I ordered. I was relieved, but not my stomach, as the food was “Greasy spoon” fare. When we left, I admitted to the two Brothers that if a brawl started I was going to bee-line out and walk back to my car (I was parked a couple of miles away, but I walk that for lunch) and let them deal with the fallout. They asked me where my sense of chivalry was, and I said Not my town, Not my bar, Not my crowd, Not my fight, Not my problem.
And my antacid was in my car. You obviously know what I think of dive bars.
Bar one was still pretty darn rough when I started stopping by on occasion for a burger. It never gave me any concern, but I didn't take Melinda in there until it underwent its transition.
I was never in Bar two until it was taken over by the new ownership. Of course it is fancy now, I've seen many leading members of our community in there a great many times. But, while it started of really great, it went all to hell more recently as staffing numbers never ramped up as it got busier. Now it's a sit and hope that you don't actually starve to death before they manage to get food on the table.
Bar three is great! As long as it isn't too late at night. Food is always excellent, fast, and very reasonably priced. Of the three though, it is by far the roughest looking.
Now a new bar has opened way up on north Tower. It's nice looking inside, and the food is great, but it really is rough. Reading the police blotter, I see that there are problems there. Anyway, the one time we stopped in Melinda caught a weird vibe, so we haven't been back.
To my mind, I'd much rather have the occasional drunk get thrown out of a bar than the screaming little monsters with parents who will not look up from their phones. Dive bars take care of that, as do places that young parents can't afford.
I had to go find a slang dictionary ... to me a "dive bar" is a place in a tropical environemnt with lots of folks in swim suits carting their diving knives on their legs ... and dripping all over everything ... and picking various marine plants and animals out of their swimsuits or wetsuits ...
so i guess this intended defintion is the old 20's context of "what place is a dive" ... meaning sleezy and inellegant and kind of scuzzy ... rofl ...
cool ...
i myself do not drink or really like to go places where alcohol is the primary item being consumed ... folks ... adult folks ... become monsters too with too much alcohol or other substances in them ...
perhaps we need to bring back the old fashioned "athletic club" ... with restaurant and bar for those who want ... swimming pool and gym ... and lots of "club rooms" to sit and chat in peace in comfy chairs as staff tends to our needs ... no kids allowed ... but peace and gentle behavior the order of the day ...
mens clubs are good too ...
i used to belong to a couple ...
ones with behavior standards ... more than dress standards ... are nicer ...
bars are ok if that is your preference ...
chuckle
i used to frequent a burlesque "dive bar" ... simply because it was a kind of "anything goes - just respect others" kind of place ... a place where one can say what you will , be what you will ... pick your nose or suck your toes ... without criticism ... is nice ...
I don't think that the fancy athletic club would be for me, but a nice Yacht Club would do it, assuming that they would let my boat less self in. Or, if we are bringing things back from the days of old, I fondly remember nice restaurants in department stores!