The Magpie Mason reports that the newly installed Grand Master of the Grand Lodge of the State of Israel believes it is time for Regular Freemasonry to begin Initiating women, and will begin working towards that end.
This has also been covered by the press in Israel, an extensive interview of the Grand Master including his thoughts about admitting women to Regular Lodges can be found here: Israel Hayom
From the interview:
“…the matter of allowing women to join the society must first be approved by the Grand Lodge.
Women are not currently accepted, Ilan said, but "it may change. I am working on it. There are lodges in France that have opened up for women already. I'm thinking of a certain model, which I won't go into details about now, but I want women to play a big role in the society. When Freemasonry was first established, women didn't work, they stayed at home. In 2022, the world is different, and we must progress."
Ilan continued, "A well-known and respected woman once told me, 'I am angry because you exclude us.' I told her that there are places that don't accept men either. There are places that don't accept men, and there are places that don't accept women. In today's reality, there must be combinations."
"I wouldn't have women do full activities right away, but to integrate into the order first. I hope that within a few months you will see a change. I respect our tradition, I live by it, and I hope to achieve an international change" in this regard.
"Some members have been part of a lodge for decades, and at first, they were afraid to say where it was, because for them it is important to keep it a secret. I guess they would find such a change difficult, but I was surprised when I got a dozen phone calls from members asking why we haven't thought about it earlier, and younger members were particularly excited.
"What will happen for sure I do not know, but through a process, I believe soon women will also be able to be Freemasons. I said during the ceremony, 'freedom, equality, and brotherhood. Love, help, and truth.' Any knowledgable person can accept these values. That is why we will have to change the system and adjust the constitution."
Itstik, who is president of the Dan lodge, also supports the change.
"If an 18-year-old girl today can learn to use a submachine gun and fly a plane, then she can probably be a Freemason too. This is the first time that the great president wants to open the ranks. Today the world is dynamic, and if we start with this in Israel, it will spread."
Nevertheless, Ilan says that things might not go smoothly.
The Great Lodge "can take away our recognition. If a lodge is not recognized by them, then there are no international connections.
"I was recently in Romania and met presidents and officials from Europe, and we have a dialogue. When I was elected, I got a call from the great presidents of France and Australia, who told me 'Australia stands with you.' Ultimately, the change is inevitable. We will find the point of balance with women, and youngsters, and we will break conventions.”
In my view, this is pretty big news. The Grand Lodge of the State of Israel is considered to be Regular by Freemasons in the English tradition. It is also a good sized Grand Lodge, by membership count, quite a lot larger than my own.
Of course, women have been made Freemasons for a very long time. In feminine Lodges and in mixed Lodges. But not as a part of what we consider to be Regular Freemasonry. This would be a radical change.
Given the proposal’s import, I think we should discuss it.
Is it time to allow women to be initiated into Regular Lodges?
What possible benefits could doing so bring?
What possible harms could doing so bring?
Can we look to other Fraternal Organizations experiences with this to inform our own opinions?
Importantly, at least here in Washington, every single Washington Freemason has knelt at an altar of God and sworn to never watch, participate in, or give consent to, the Initiation of a woman into Freemasonry. Given that, is doing it even possible?
If someday the Grand Lodge somehow voted to free its Masons from that promise, would that action be enough for men to violate it, or would they feel themselves morally obligated to hold fast?
Agreed. If the GL of Israel decides to do it, and if they figure out how to pull it off, it will certainly be interesting to see how the other GL's around the world react. I think it safe to assume that most would indeed react in some way.
They will be compelled to by their recognition. Personally, I see women involved a lot in freemasonry. Mostly in side groups, support,attendance in dinners, functions, etc and I'm not speaking of star or white shrine. That said, never in degree work. Most of the wives in my bubble of existence don't want the formality and would rather have a dinner group. We approached them about the star. They didn't care for the org. But, this will be interesting to watch.
Women have always been Freemasons and in fact, in England there are two Orders - The Honourable Fraternity Of Ancient Freemasons and The Order of Women Freemasons. At least in the case of HFAF, (and possibly OWF but I don't know for sure) they are recognised by UGLE as being Regular, other than the fact they are women. There is not at this time Amity between the two, though the Grand Master of HFAF has reached out.
Frankly, I'm very happy with gender-segregated Freemasonry and see no personal need for anything else. My personal mileage is that we are perfectly Regular. What other's try to decide for us we are is immaterial and is on them as a mark of their own evolution. I won't judge them for it any more than I'd judge an amputee for being minus a limb.
Here in Washington State we too have female Freemasons, with at least one active group not too far from where I live. It is Co-Masonic, I'm not aware of any female only group active locally.
I too am pleased with, to use your term, gender-segregated Freemasonry. I think that a Co-Masonic Lodge would have quite different dynamics, and I'm not sure that the different dynamics would be positive.
As far as the women in my life (a wife and three daughters) they are all pretty heavily involved Masonically, despite not being Masons. I would guess that over the course of a year my wife attends more Non-Tiled Masonic events and meetings than 95% of the Masons in my Jurisdiction. Additionally all three of my daughters attend, and help with, Masonic events from time to time, and seem eager to do so. Interesting to me is the fact that my wife holds Masonry in extremely high regard, and has strong opinions about Masonic symbolism and what that symbolism teaches, but has no interest whatsoever in Co-Masonry or a female Craft Lodge.
Aug 21, 2022·edited Aug 21, 2022Liked by Cameron M. Bailey
Agree that Co-Masonic Lodges would have a very different dynamic. I think there was an all women Lodge chartered under the Grand Lodge of Belgium, in North Hollywood, CA last I checked but I don't know if they are still there.
HFAF has America Lodge 57 in Washington DC and I believe they are working to charter other state lodges. HFAF has lodges all over the world, India, Spain, France, etc. Here's the UGLE statement on Regularity https://hfaf.org/hfaf-official/
The Feminine Grand Lodge of Belgium has chartered lodges in Washington DC, New York and LA. There are all-woman GL in many countries, the best list is probably here: https://www.climaf.eu/obediences----obediences-.html
I am aware that there is a female only Grand Lodge operating in Southern California as I sat in on a presentation by their Grand Master organized by the Grand Lodge of California. I don't have information about where their Lodges (there are multiple) are located beyond that, I think that she went through her list of Lodges, but it was a few years ago and I just don't remember.
There are many avenues to Freemasonry around the world; only in the US has masculine Masonry grown to be the 'only one'. Mixed Masonry, admitting men and women equally has been in the US since 1903, and will celebrate 120 years in 2023. Our Order is international, with lodges across the globe. Significant other Orders of Mixed Masonry exist, as well; many of them off-shoots of Le Droit Humain. We all work to the same ends, wouldn't it make sense for all of us to work together?
One of the greatest strengths of Freemasonry, in my opinion, is that when properly done, Lodges are strikingly different from each other, both in personality and focus. My home Lodge is amazingly charitable, working quite hard to help those in need. The second Lodge I ever joined is a theme Lodge, offering great fellowship around a common interest. The Lodge closest to me is kind of an eclectic mix, working to provide some education, some good fellowship, some charity, but without a focus on one specific thing. The Lodge I joined most recently is focused very heavily on Fellowship around amazing food and drink. Another Lodge I've started spending a lot of time at is extremely invested in high level Masonic education and the perfection of ritual.
All this is a long way of saying that if a Brother doesn't like his Lodge, or wants to focus on something different in his Masonic experience, we can find a Lodge for him that will meet his needs. This is because of the diversity our Lodges offer, and that diversity is a great strength.
Likewise I think with the Orders you mention.
We would all do well to recognize that it is darn hard for a person interested in Freemasonry, but who doesn't know a Freemason, to find us. We collectively just aren't very good at getting ourselves out there where we can be found by someone who is starting from zero.
Just this evening I was contacted by a Mason who is traveling to Mexico, and who had no idea how to find a Lodge in the area he will be visiting. He contacted me because I spend a lot of time in that country. The thing was though, I've never traveled Masonically to where he is going, and while I eventually found enough information to get him on the right track, I wasn't able to pinpoint things for him precisely because the particular GL's website wasn't sufficient. That isn't just a difficulty in Mexico, here too, it can be hard to find a Lodge, and when one does manage to find a Lodge website, it is quite often out of date by years. Not to get too convoluted here, but a couple of weeks ago I went to visit a Lodge on its Stated Meeting night, according to its website. I drove about an hour, waited, no one ever came. It turns out that they had voted, years ago, to go dark in August, but never updated their website with that information.
All of this is a long way of saying that I think one of the easiest ways, and to people seeking out Freemasonry, most important ways we can work together is to share information on each other's existence. In other words, if a woman calls our office seeking information about becoming a Freemason we should direct her to the Co-Masonic group in our area, not tell her that there is no such thing as a female Freemason.
As the old saying goes, a rising tide does indeed raise all boats.
I also think that it can be extremely helpful to learn about one another. Perhaps 2 or 3 years ago the GL of California arranged a discussion (via Zoom, pandemic time) with the GM of a female only GL in that State. I was honored to be invited to sit in on that discussion, and I learned a great deal about her organization, its aims and practices.
I recall a conversation I had after a lodge meeting with a respected brother. The focus of the conversation was the notion “free born”. His stance was that it’s utterly rendered meaningless by virtue of our current views on freedom. Chiefly, that while someone could be made a slave through force, no one is born a slave. We believe that people are born free. So how much weight does the notion “free born” carry in our evaluation of a man of being worthy of initiation? I’m sure most of us don’t give it a second thought. So, it would stand to reason that we still have customs and language in our ritual that is from a bygone era where the views of the individual were much different. My point here is that Masonry has, and will, change. In England, they use to have separate lodges for each religion (ie a Jewish Lodge, a Christian Lodge, etc). They were all considered equal, but separate. Then it changed. And of course there’s Prince Hall Masonry. Once separate, now included. We have the concept of “are you a man?” In our language and requirements, but I’ve never once seen a Masonic Code that seeks to define what “a man” is. If we got all the Masons in the US together to come up with a definition it would be surprisingly difficult to do, I think.
Yes in Israel they have women in the military and we do that but in Israel just look at the Kotel (the Wall) and you will see the two sections one for the men on the left and a short wall dividing the women on the right side.
Not too many years ago one of our Grand Master's recommendations was to remove the language related to 'free born' from our ritual here in Washington. Ritual changes require a 90% vote to pass or a 50% vote to carry over to the next year. As I recall, his recommendation did not receive even the lesser amount of votes.
If my memory serves, most of the arguments against it were due to tradition. A desire to not change a part of the ritual that has been contained within it for so many years, despite the fact that it is meaningless within the United States now, and indeed for generations.
You are certainly correct that Freemasonry changes, but it often changes painfully slowly. I reflect on the GL of Washington's efforts to recognize Prince Hall. It took us over 100 years of work to get it done, despite a strong desire over those years to do it, and attempts to do it.
I don't think that we need to define what a man is. I think the man in question does that on his own. I guess what I'm trying to say is that we require a candidate to hold a belief in God. But we don't ask him what God means to him. Likewise, we require a candidate to be a man, but we don't (and need not) ask him what being a man means to him.
Otherwise, the situation you mention would certainly come about. How could it be defined? What about the man who no longer had the physical attributes of a man because of treatment of disease or accident? The discussions would go round and round forever.
A man is a man because he believes himself to be a man, just as a man believes in God because he believes himself to believe in God. Anything else is too convoluted.
And of course, if a Lodge questions his veracity through his actions, behaviors, or words, the Lodge has the black cube.
I actually saw this happen once. A seemingly very good candidate had come to a local Lodge. Very shortly prior to his Initiation a number of us were sitting around a table talking and he started talking in depth about a traumatic experience in his life, through the course of that he let is slip that he did not believe in God. He had intended on joining the Fraternity anyway, and he almost got in, but in the heat of the moment he exposed his atheism.
I know Brothers from England who have mentioned this and I just didn't get involved in the conversation.
When I hear people talk about anything and saying "well they do it in _____ country" the first thing I think is they can do what they want but that doesn't mean I should do it.
And then where will this stop?
I don't even have to say all the reasons since here in Washington ALL of those other subjects happen daily here ( I will just say Port Townsend)
And that one reason "well women can do ______ so we should be able to be Masons and in your Lodges" are another one I am not a "fan" of.
Every year we discuss what we need to do to find new members to join us that could be Masonic and THIS is never brought up as the thing to do AND I guarantee if it became the new Grand Lodge rule it will be the reason why members would instantly stop showing up to Stated meetings.
We already have the Order of the Eastern Star and Rainbow Girls I don't ask to be a member there.
Or the WNBA or LPGA.....ok I'm too old to do that these days >:-P
(and I wasn't going to say anything but I just am waking up and my eyes are still blurry but not that blurry that my mind would change)
We do, in my view, cede a bit too much credence to the UGLE. Not saying that I have any problem with the UGLE, because I don't, but I don't think that particular Grand Lodge to somehow be 'the be all end all' of Masonic wisdom or practice. There is much to admire in the other old Grand Lodges, Scotland, Ireland, and I'm certain that we could learn much from the Grand Orient of France as well.
So, I guess what I'm saying is that I'm kinda like you. I appreciate knowing what they are doing in England (or other countries) Masonically, but I don't think we need to follow them blindly. Heck, blindly following them has wrongly convinced millions of Masons through the years that Freemasonry was founded in London in 1717, something quite clearly not the case.
Plus they changed the Square and Compasses. Why on earth would they have done that?
OK, so that last is a bit facetious, but the point stands. American Freemasonry needs to make its own decisions, informed by others, but never blindly. I think it has to be that way everywhere on the globe, for surely local conditions are quite different from place to place, country to country.
Thank you Brother, but no can do. The Mrs. has plans for me.
She's been after me to do something for quite a few years now, me I just kinda smile and nod. Imagine my surprise a short time ago when she told me that she'd made all the (extremely extensive) plans without tellin' me.
Melinda's been following me around from Lodge to Lodge for quite a few years now, so I've gotta follow her around on this one.
Yes the good old "Honey-Do" .......I will get you over here again one of these days.......either #6 or #107 ......and hopefully inside the Lodge it won't be as hot as it was that one time you were at the #107 Stated meeting.......both of us could have used a fan in front of us that evening :-P
Most recently, the Boy Scouts of America...in an effort to preserve rather than streamline their costly overhead and executive retirement system...decided to allow girls in Scouting. Whereas it takes many boys nearly 7 years to earn Eagle Scout rank (ages 11 to 18), girls can become Eagles in ONE year. The organization that once built character has lost its way and ransomed its soul.
The feminization of Freemasonry seem to be about preservation, not inclusion and diversity. I'm certain that we can determine much better ways forward than that. But, if we start down this path, will it begin with transgender "men"? BTW, my pronouns are...
As a kid I was very heavily involved in the Boy Scouts. Cub Scouts and Webelos before that. As a young man I became a Scouter for a time. Through that involvement, and involvement in the FFA, I think that I probably learned more about how to live my life than I ever did in formal education.
We need groups like Scouting, if we are to turn out the leaders of tomorrow. It is sad to see the decline.
I'm not 100% sure what all the causes of that decline are though. I notice that kids are raised much differently today than we were raised when I was young. I see parents today who seem absolutely convinced that their child will die if they were to walk to the corner store on their own. When I was a kid we'd disappear for most of the day. No one worried that we were going to get kidnapped or somehow croak in a freak accident. Likewise, in Scouting my parents would send me off for a weekend, sometimes a week. (My father was a Scoutmaster, but he left the adventures to other fathers) I just don't see parents doing that today. I presume that unreasonable parental fear has harmed Scouting quite badly, along with everything else.
Back to Freemasonry...
In my view, if a Grand Lodge were to open itself up to accepting female members it would in no way boost membership nor preserve the Craft.
That has been proven by all the other fraternities and service clubs that have moved from male only to mixed membership. That opening up has not resulted in membership growth for them, and it would not for us.
As an Eagle Scout (1964). Scout leader for my two Eagle Scout sons, past executive vice president of the Tacoma council, national jamboree attendee (twice)) and chair of the national awards & recognition committee for Scouting Alumni, I have witnessed the heyday and decline of BSA. It’s a sad comment on “progress” and change for changes sake.
You were much more active than I could have hoped to be. Thank you for all of your service to the young men of your area! Alas, as the father of only daughters, none of my children were able to follow me into Scouting, or indeed into the Lodge.
My information could be wrong, but it was my understanding that the UGLE was forced to make this decision based upon the laws of the country in which it is based.
Personally, I believe that if a man no longer meets the requirements of Freemasonry, he ceases to be a Freemason.
For example, if a Man believes in God while joining Freemasonry, but later, long after he was made a Master Mason, he becomes an atheist, he is no longer a Freemason, for he no longer meets the requirements of being a Freemason.
I am aware that Jurisdictions exist that do not require a belief in God, and clearly in those Jurisdictions my example would not work, but I am referring to what we in the US consider to be Regular Freemasonry, where it is a universal requirement among Regular Lodges.
2. If we become more like everyone else, if we compromise on our traditions, what will we become?
3. Men and women are different. They have different social psychology. Just because women can "...use a submachine gun and fly a plane..." Does not equate to being a man. Is masculinity a tenant of Freemasonry?
4. We have women pastors/preachers, CEOs, programmers, scientists, racecar drivers, doctors, lawyers, judges etc. Church in particular is a good example of diversity and inclusion of women. Although in the US, religion as a whole is in massive decline. Has including women more, changed this?
Why change with the times? Why would you ask me to violate my obligation? To gain new members? To try and be more relevant? Do the teachings of Jesus change? Moses? The Declaration of Independence? The Pareto distribution?
My point is we are the fraternity and institution that is not blown to and fro by every wind or culture change. No matter a cause's altruism, the ancient craft is not altruistic. It teaches virtue.
There already are is co-ed Masonry. If our values cause us to dwindle, to give up charters and consolidate; so be it. For he that endureth to the end, the same shall be saved.
Stay steadfast in the due performance of the same.
>>>If we become more like everyone else, if we compromise on our traditions, what will we >>>become?
I agree with your view. Freemasonry is an Ancient Craft and should remain true to its purposes. At some point, in the US, it became a Temperance Society. That didn't work out for it any more than for the country. I think that most if not all GL's have abandoned that craziness now. At some point though, it also became an institutional charity. I don't think that was ever its purpose. I'm convinced that change badly harmed membership growth for generations because we forgot to teach Freemasonry.
Freemasonry is what it is, and it should never change because outside forces 'demand' it.
>>>Men and women are different.
And I believe that as a result of those differences, Co-Masonry would have a much different culture and feel. I also believe that it would cause Masons to be much more insular within themselves. I don't think that these would be positive changes.
>>>Church in particular is a good example of diversity and inclusion of women. Although in the US, >>>religion as a whole is in massive decline. Has including women more, changed this?
My Church remains 100% masculine led, so I can't speak to that, but I do see the same parallels in other fraternal groups and service clubs that have let women join on an equal footing with men. Doing so has not turned around their membership declines.
>>>If our values cause us to dwindle, to give up charters and consolidate; so be it. For he that >>>endureth to the end, the same shall be saved.
I don't think that our Ancient values and teachings will lead to Freemasonry's decline. In fact, I think it is just the opposite. I think that we will have a very bright future when our Lodges begin once again teaching Freemasonry to Masons. That is after all why we became Masons, to learn Freemasonry, and improve ourselves through it. If we give our Initiates what they seek, our Lodges will thrive.
>>>If you include women; how is it a fraternity?
I think we generally use the term fraternity incorrectly in the US based on its use in university settings. I don't think that it is a specifically masculine term, hence the motto Liberty, Equality, Fraternity applies to all. But that is semantics.
In any event, like you, I believe that Regular Masonry needs to remain as it is, a male only institution. Surely men need 'spaces' to be men. Men need institutions to foster manhood.
This is a very difficult topic in the fraternity and in our jurisdiction especially.
Thinking about our obligation one sees a way in which we couldn't conceivably allow this change to occur in Washington. For many members this would be a slap in the face and it would cause many of our brethren to leave the fraternity forever. For me personally I took an obligation at the altar of freemasonry and while I get the concern and the thought process, I take my obligations seriously.
It would take many years of discussion and movement for this to occur. One of the things that would really concern me is that I would feel a disconnect from our history, and while moving forward is an honor it would take a lot for me to make a final decision.
I also look to what other jurisdictions would do. A decision like this could potentially alienate our Grand Lodge from the rest of the Country. Seeing as in 2022 we are still even attempting to get complete universal recognition of Prince Hall in the United States, and Washington has seen the response from other Grand Lodges about this in the past.
I would encourage to see a forum about this topic in a lodge of discussion.
I could well be wrong, but I don't see any US Grand Lodge leading this charge so to speak. I imagine that any change like this would be made by a European GL long before any US GL even considered it.
Of course, some European GL's, who we are not in amity with have already done things like this.
Or, give the quotes above, Israel just might be the first Regular GL to do it.
There are, perhaps, some Latin American GL's that have experimented along these lines. I don't have any information one way or the other about that, but one does see things on Social Media from time to time that seem to point in that direction.
I don't see this as an issue that the Grand Lodge of Washington will be taking up in my lifetime.
I would agree with you on the US Grand Lodges. I think the jurisdiction that would lead the charge here would be California. There Grand Lodge appears to have close ties to the UGLE and have posted about this topic on Social Media in the past.
I would say they I do not anticipate this discussion to progress within my lifetime, but then I need to remember I have been apart of this Fraternity since 2008 when I turned 18 and I am only 31 years old now.
I can only imagine what our fraternity will look like or change in the next 30-40 years. Based on discussion among brothers closer to my age across the country I could imagine a larger forum about masonry, membership, and how we interact with society changing significantly in the next 10-15 years.
In my faith of our organization we are strong and will be getting stronger. Many of the brothers my age are similarly minded and as we progress in life and within our organization who knows what the future may hold.
I do believe that Freemasonry is stronger right now than it has been in decades, and I think that the trend is upward. Driven by younger Masons that are demanding change, supported in those demands by older Masons who know that it is needed.
I believe that we will see further consolidations and mergers as things reach a new equilibrium, and that those Lodges that refuse to change will continue to die, but what remains will be strong, and it will be committed to the ideals of Freemasonry.
This is a complex question, with profound impacts to our fraternity. For me there are several questions that need to be answered before a decision is made.
What I am about to write is based on a biologically typical male and female. Adding the dimension of people who gender expression and biology are different would I expect only make my argument stronger, but frankly its beyond me right now to sort out.
Can women legitimately be Freemasons? This is not the question, the answer is simply, yes. Another question that is really pointless is can women benefit from Freemasonry? Again yes. These are questions based in supporting “the way we have always done things” argument. Men and women are, taken in the integral equal. However, there are differences in details.
The questions I think we need to answer, in my opinion, come from the esoteric aspect of our Craft. For example, “Are the male and female mysteries, symbols and ritual expression different?” In many societies male and female members go through different ‘initiations’ into adulthood and as members of that society. Our third degree has elements of what is called a ”solar mythology” and often solar mysteries are tied to male systems of spiritual evolution. As a man I know that our mythology of our degrees resonates with my deep archetypal needs. Would that work for a woman? Honestly, I don’t know. What I do know is if they do not, then our degrees would need to be altered to female mysteries to be as useful for women. I think that, would dilute the degrees efficacy for both men and women.
That said, dual and equivalent systems tailored to the needs of each gender, meeting/combining after the sublime third degree of each system could exists in the same jurisdiction. If there needed to be a different mythological basis for women, and a degree set was developed for that so that they achieved equivalent moral/ethical/spiritual elevation to the current male system with each degree, then why not? A joined jurisdiction under those conditions could not only serve women, but society as a whole.
Finally, one of the ways Freemasonry affected our society was by the enlightening effect of our system of degrees. Then those men went out and worked as men in a male dominated world. The world today is not male dominated and women are playing a crucial and important role in running our world. To deny them the benefits of a system like ours seems foolish to me. I also think that today’s women would not be satisfied with membership in a subordinate organization, and would expect equality if they are to participate.
I imagine that you are certainly correct in pointing out that mythology and symbolism that speaks well to men, may not speak as well to women. Certainly in the past there have been efforts to provide the knowledge and benefits of Freemasonry to women. Robert Morris' work that has never been realized, and Pike's Rite of Adoption quickly come to mind. Of course, created by men, who knows how successful they could have been, if one of their systems was actually adopted.
I also agree, 100%, that today's women would not be satisfied with a subordinate organization. I think we see this plainly in the OES. As it is practiced within our Masonic Jurisdictions it is not an effective means for communicating the lessons of Freemasonry. Indeed, it doesn't even seem to attempt to do so. My wife, myself, and two of my daughters are members, none of us were able to get anything meaningful from it, so none of us have been active for many years now. I think that it has two options, it can either change to create meaning (The system as designed by Morris has never actually been implemented) or it will no longer exist in a fairly short period of time.
Ultimately, I don't think that men can somehow drive female Freemasonry. If that is to grow and thrive, women would need to create it. Not men, and not men simply opening our doors to women. For as you rightly say, there are differences between the genders. Recognizing that is I think a longstanding law within the Western Esoteric Tradition, of which Freemasonry is a part.
Totally agree. There has been a place for women in the WMT for sometime, and they did/do hold leadership positions. As with our order, many of those traditions were based in mythology, and those mythologies were designed/chosen to accomadate both genders equally, or at least more equally. i am for an integrated Craft, but against just openning the doors. i think it needs to be carefully done, with wisdom and compassion. Like i said, a complex problem. Like so many of the challenges we face today, extraordinary leadership is called for to address it. Good topic, thanks.
I'm glad that this topic was enjoyed and engaged so many. I never quite know when I throw these topics out what will resonate. It's pleasing to see that this one did.
While I never have visited Israel, being Jewish I take more than a passing interest in news pertaining to it. I’m thinking how, because it is a small country, you see people of all backgrounds integrated into nearly all places in society. (The lone exception that springs to mind is religious higher education, but I could be wrong about that.)
For Israel, allowing some lodges to be “co-ed” would be congruent with anything else in life. Being a small nation, every pair of hands is needed. In their lodges, Jews, Christians, Muslims, Druze, et al.; ethnic European, African, Asian people, et al. all meet on the Level. The unexplored frontier is the mixing of the two sexes.
If they do forge ahead with this idea, I will be interested to see how grand lodges around the world will react with their recognition standards.
I try to read The Magpie Mason everyday. I always enjoy your reporting about things happening within Masonry. Plus, we lovers of the briar must stick together!
I too think it would be quite interesting seeing how other GL's react (or not) if they moved forward with this. I don't imagine that all US GL's would react as a block. I can see where there would quite likely be differences of opinion that would drive different actions.
To be honest, I don't think much discussion is needed. Freemasonry is a Fraternity whose goal is to make good men better. There is co-masonry, women's freemasonry, and concordant bodies which women are free to join. I see no reason to violate my obligation and make regular Masonry co-ed.
I'm sorry, but I think that I have to disagree regarding the amount of discussion that is needed.
I think that if we don't discuss these things now, we could well wake up in 20 years to see a Freemasonry that is much different than what we believe it should be. If we don't make our voices heard relating to the future of our Fraternity, forces that we may not agree with will drive its future instead of ourselves.
I do agree with you that we should not make our GL's Co-Masonic, but I think we do well to discuss it, for I fear that if we do not we can easily lose control.
I also think that we do well to figure out how to acknowledge existing forms of Co-Masonry and female Masonry for by doing so we ensure that those seeking such things can find them, instead of agitating to change Masonry from the outside.
Lastly, I agree with you re: our Obligations. I know that they may be different from Jurisdiction to Jurisdiction, but in Washington anyway, there is no way for one of our Lodges to make a woman a Mason without the Brothers doing so violating their Obligations.
Apologies if my statement came off as dismissive. That wasn't my intent. Yes, discussing it is important so that we can understand ourselves in relation to how other "irregular" and "clandestine" bodies change and adapt. By observing them and their growth (or decline) we can have a better understanding of what may work for "regular" Masonry.
Encouraging women (or transgender/agender/etc.) individuals to explore the many disparate forms of Masonry, even if they can't join our own lodges, is definitely beneficial and, while we don't have mutual recognition with those organizations, I think would help the craft (if one views "the craft" as the entirety of masonry currently being practiced) overall.
I guess I'm wary of changes like this because you can look at any organization which changes to "get with the times" and typically see a decline in interest in that organization. We just have to look at other fraternities to see what changing or doing away with ritual, or adjusting membership criteria, can do in regards to people being interested in that group. Who comes to mind now is the Knights of Columbus who revamped their whole ritual structure into a 30 min-1 hour public ceremony for all of their degrees. Or just look at the Oddfellows, who are now co-ed, and see what their numbers are like.
Finally, should there be more dialogue between "regular" masonic bodies and "irregular/clandestine" bodies? Absolutely. Should we change to "get with the times" when masonic bodies already exist to fill that niche? No. I'm not worried about the GL of WA changing, but if one GL makes that decision it does open up the doors for more "schisms" which would only hurt "regular" masonry overall.
>>>I guess I'm wary of changes like this because you can look at any organization which >>>changes to "get with the times" and typically see a decline in interest in that >>>organization. We just have to look at other fraternities to see what changing or doing >>>away with ritual, or adjusting membership criteria, can do in regards to people being >>>interested in that group. Who comes to mind now is the Knights of Columbus who >>>revamped their whole ritual structure into a 30 min-1 hour public ceremony for all of >>>their degrees. Or just look at the Oddfellows, who are now co-ed, and see what their >>>numbers are like.
Agreed, and I think that we have seen this with Service Clubs as well. When the changes were made, while potential membership doubled, actual membership collapsed. It just didn't work from a practical standpoint.
>>>if one GL makes that decision it does open up the doors for more "schisms" which >>>would only hurt "regular" masonry overall.
Thank you for this, it is an important point that we all do well to remember, for it would cause schism.
Given the status of membership and working Spouses today, over 100 years ago Women were allowed to vote:
“ Approved by the Senate on June 4, 1919, and ratified in August 1920, the Nineteenth Amendment marked one stage in women's long fight for political equality. This timeline features key moments on the Senate's long road to the ratification of the Nineteenth Amendment to the Constitution.”
I have no plausible reason when asked by Women to explain “why not”.
I also have a difficulty dealing with “we’ve never done xxxx ‘full in the blanks’ before.
Our Spouses seem content that their Husbands are among honorable Men…
Our Spouses enjoy those moments of free time.
We struggled accepting Prince Hall.
I would hate to see a legal challenge to force us.
I believe Women would adhere to our Obligations though some need to be changed.
Will this happen…yes…when will it happen?
When it does happen we will assuredly look back and ask “why didn’t we do this earlier”?
Would OES be impacted if a Women decided to stay in Blue Lodge with her husband?
Would a couple have a stronger marriage when both vow to a higher moral standard.
>>>I would hate to see a legal challenge to force us.
I have often wondered what would happen if someday we were faced by a Government ruling or regulation that required Freemasons to violate their obligations.
It is my view that such a ruling/regulation would be the sign that we needed to go back underground. The current system of Masonic Government has existed for just over 300 years, and our Ancient Craft has been public for that span of time. But, Freemasonry existed long before it adopted the current Grand Lodge system, and long before it ever let the public know of its existence.
Indeed, even today secret Masonic Lodges exist in nations of this world where Lodges are illegal.
We could, and if Government required us to violate our obligations, we should I think, go back to the Ancient, secret ways of doing things. Doing so would of course cause us to abandon our massive collective assets, but Freemasonry does not need fancy buildings or big investment accounts to thrive. As a very smart Mason told me many years ago, Great Freemasonry needs nothing more than three very committed Masons, sitting together in a garage, talking about our Craft.
Female exclusion in Lodges is certainly not the only issue Government might decide to change via immoral fiat, but I imagine it to be one of them. The thing is though, once Government got involved, it would never stop. It would keep cutting Freemasonry until there was absolutely nothing left.
I'd like to start my response by telling a recent story about a man who approached me about joining the Fraternity. I don't know this for sure, but I imagine most Brothers approach a prospective candidate in a similar fashion. One of my first questions is always "Why do you want to become a Freemason?". In this particular scenario the gentleman gave what I honestly thought was one of the best answers I've ever received.
He said that he worked in Elementary Education and research associated with it. He is in his early 30's and he told me that his field is almost completely women. On a daily basis, even in his "nicest" and most "meek" tones, he is received as aggressive and mean to his co-workers. He wanted to find a group of men that he could learn from and grow from. He clearly didn't understand the female perspective of his approaches and thought about the fact that there are a ton of groups aimed at supporting women in a male dominated world, but Freemasonry might be one of the only groups that truly is trying to "make good men better".
That being said, I believe that the Fraternity is geared towards helping men find their role in society. I know there have been women analog groups that have done similar things and I support that, but when it comes to whether or not women should be accepted into the Fraternity, I feel like it both lessens the main purpose of what we are trying to do, and the experience we would offer a woman would not be an experience that is geared towards them.
If it's truly just the "Esoteric" nature of the Fraternity that these women are after, there are also other organizations that accept both men and women and still give a forum to discuss these Esoteric topics. One such organization would be Martinism.
Your point is very well taken. Men do need a school for manhood. MW Robert Davis has written about that extensively, and I think his arguments make a good deal of sense. I imagine that this need is growing within our society as more and more males are raised by single mothers with unfortunately absent fathers.
I think that usually when an interested man is asked the question you ask, they aren't sure how to answer. I don't think I was, not fully anyway. It sounds like this man however truly thought it out, and it is awesome that he was willing to share that.
Since Co-Masonry exists within our jurisdiction (Washington) the only reason why women would want to join the fraternity would be because they can't. If they have the means to join an organization that allows women, why would they insist on joining a male only one? If it is because of they want to be with their husbands, let the husbands join hers. Nothing stopping him from doing so, except that he would most likely be expelled from the fraternity for it. Life is hard choices.
Women, to be blunt, would interfere with the harmony and fellowship of the lodge. It would be inevitable.
I also joined for many reasons, but one was that I needed a place to socialize and be around like minded men, where we can have that camaraderie and bonding that doesn't happen once you introduce women into the equation.
At one of the lodge leadership retreat dinners a few years ago, I was seated at a table with a middle aged couple. The wife made a comment that if women were allowed to join freemasonry, she would be the first to join. I replied, if women were allowed to join our fraternity, I'd be the first to demit. They didn't like my answer, but it was true, and I suspect it would be true for a lot of others. If the GL were somehow able to get such a resolution passed, it would not have the desired effect they think it would have.
Having sat through a couple of Eastern Star installations, all I can say is God help us all.
>>>Having sat through a couple of Eastern Star installations, all I can say is God help us all.
Rarely does a post make me laugh out loud, but having sat through the never, ever, ending introductions myself, this one certainly did.
I think that there is a great deal of potential locked within the OES, as it is, and as it was designed by Robert Morris. But for that potential to be realized will take very strong leadership, and tremendous change. Without those things, the organization will not long survive in any form.
I was raised in 1974. For much of the twentieth century, Freemasonry membership brought with it opportunities for business and career advancement. My first employer had an active Fellowcraft Club whose monthly meetings allowed me to meet many of the firm's executive staff on a personal level. One could argue that, women being denied membership in the craft, this discrimination limited their career opportunities. In the twenty-first century, the advantages of Masonic membership are now limited to expanding one's social circle, with an emphasis on growth, both as a man and citizen. As a result, the act of denying women membership has lost much of its unsavory connotations.
The following paragraph from The Good Men Project suggests the benefits of maintaining the craft's traditional male-only membership. "It is invaluable to have a group of reliable men who we see consistently over time, with whom we can build a circle of trust and where we can tell our darkest stories without risk of shame. Together we form a stronghold where it is possible to drop our heavy shields and replace our defenses with the real safety that comes with genuine self-awareness and self-understanding." https://goodmenproject.com/ethics-values/5-amazing-reasons-to-join-a-mens-group-fiff/
>>>It is invaluable to have a group of reliable men who we see consistently over time, with whom >>>we can build a circle of trust and where we can tell our darkest stories without risk of shame.
Thank you for this.
Not often, but on rare occasions, I have been present in a Lodge meeting where a man has told his 'darkest story' and how he overcame that which had plagued his life. These have been the most powerful Masonic meetings I've ever encountered, and I believe quite healing for the man in question.
I do not believe that those things would have happened had women been present. I think that our natural instincts and societal conditionings would have prevented the men in question from opening up.
Given that our stated purpose is to help a man become a better man, precluding this opportunity seems to be contrary to that purpose.
I demand of you are you a free man of the mature age of 21 years.
Logistics and opinions aside, I lt going to be interesting to watch.
Agreed. If the GL of Israel decides to do it, and if they figure out how to pull it off, it will certainly be interesting to see how the other GL's around the world react. I think it safe to assume that most would indeed react in some way.
They will be compelled to by their recognition. Personally, I see women involved a lot in freemasonry. Mostly in side groups, support,attendance in dinners, functions, etc and I'm not speaking of star or white shrine. That said, never in degree work. Most of the wives in my bubble of existence don't want the formality and would rather have a dinner group. We approached them about the star. They didn't care for the org. But, this will be interesting to watch.
My experience is similar to yours. My wife and daughters are extremely involved with Freemasonry. But have no desire to become Freemasons themselves.
They are also members of the Star, as am I, but none are active, finding that the organization fails to meet their needs on any level.
Women have always been Freemasons and in fact, in England there are two Orders - The Honourable Fraternity Of Ancient Freemasons and The Order of Women Freemasons. At least in the case of HFAF, (and possibly OWF but I don't know for sure) they are recognised by UGLE as being Regular, other than the fact they are women. There is not at this time Amity between the two, though the Grand Master of HFAF has reached out.
Frankly, I'm very happy with gender-segregated Freemasonry and see no personal need for anything else. My personal mileage is that we are perfectly Regular. What other's try to decide for us we are is immaterial and is on them as a mark of their own evolution. I won't judge them for it any more than I'd judge an amputee for being minus a limb.
Everyone else's mileage may vary.
Here in Washington State we too have female Freemasons, with at least one active group not too far from where I live. It is Co-Masonic, I'm not aware of any female only group active locally.
I too am pleased with, to use your term, gender-segregated Freemasonry. I think that a Co-Masonic Lodge would have quite different dynamics, and I'm not sure that the different dynamics would be positive.
As far as the women in my life (a wife and three daughters) they are all pretty heavily involved Masonically, despite not being Masons. I would guess that over the course of a year my wife attends more Non-Tiled Masonic events and meetings than 95% of the Masons in my Jurisdiction. Additionally all three of my daughters attend, and help with, Masonic events from time to time, and seem eager to do so. Interesting to me is the fact that my wife holds Masonry in extremely high regard, and has strong opinions about Masonic symbolism and what that symbolism teaches, but has no interest whatsoever in Co-Masonry or a female Craft Lodge.
Agree that Co-Masonic Lodges would have a very different dynamic. I think there was an all women Lodge chartered under the Grand Lodge of Belgium, in North Hollywood, CA last I checked but I don't know if they are still there.
HFAF has America Lodge 57 in Washington DC and I believe they are working to charter other state lodges. HFAF has lodges all over the world, India, Spain, France, etc. Here's the UGLE statement on Regularity https://hfaf.org/hfaf-official/
The Feminine Grand Lodge of Belgium has chartered lodges in Washington DC, New York and LA. There are all-woman GL in many countries, the best list is probably here: https://www.climaf.eu/obediences----obediences-.html
Thank you for providing this list. I appreciate it.
I am aware that there is a female only Grand Lodge operating in Southern California as I sat in on a presentation by their Grand Master organized by the Grand Lodge of California. I don't have information about where their Lodges (there are multiple) are located beyond that, I think that she went through her list of Lodges, but it was a few years ago and I just don't remember.
There are many avenues to Freemasonry around the world; only in the US has masculine Masonry grown to be the 'only one'. Mixed Masonry, admitting men and women equally has been in the US since 1903, and will celebrate 120 years in 2023. Our Order is international, with lodges across the globe. Significant other Orders of Mixed Masonry exist, as well; many of them off-shoots of Le Droit Humain. We all work to the same ends, wouldn't it make sense for all of us to work together?
One of the greatest strengths of Freemasonry, in my opinion, is that when properly done, Lodges are strikingly different from each other, both in personality and focus. My home Lodge is amazingly charitable, working quite hard to help those in need. The second Lodge I ever joined is a theme Lodge, offering great fellowship around a common interest. The Lodge closest to me is kind of an eclectic mix, working to provide some education, some good fellowship, some charity, but without a focus on one specific thing. The Lodge I joined most recently is focused very heavily on Fellowship around amazing food and drink. Another Lodge I've started spending a lot of time at is extremely invested in high level Masonic education and the perfection of ritual.
All this is a long way of saying that if a Brother doesn't like his Lodge, or wants to focus on something different in his Masonic experience, we can find a Lodge for him that will meet his needs. This is because of the diversity our Lodges offer, and that diversity is a great strength.
Likewise I think with the Orders you mention.
We would all do well to recognize that it is darn hard for a person interested in Freemasonry, but who doesn't know a Freemason, to find us. We collectively just aren't very good at getting ourselves out there where we can be found by someone who is starting from zero.
Just this evening I was contacted by a Mason who is traveling to Mexico, and who had no idea how to find a Lodge in the area he will be visiting. He contacted me because I spend a lot of time in that country. The thing was though, I've never traveled Masonically to where he is going, and while I eventually found enough information to get him on the right track, I wasn't able to pinpoint things for him precisely because the particular GL's website wasn't sufficient. That isn't just a difficulty in Mexico, here too, it can be hard to find a Lodge, and when one does manage to find a Lodge website, it is quite often out of date by years. Not to get too convoluted here, but a couple of weeks ago I went to visit a Lodge on its Stated Meeting night, according to its website. I drove about an hour, waited, no one ever came. It turns out that they had voted, years ago, to go dark in August, but never updated their website with that information.
All of this is a long way of saying that I think one of the easiest ways, and to people seeking out Freemasonry, most important ways we can work together is to share information on each other's existence. In other words, if a woman calls our office seeking information about becoming a Freemason we should direct her to the Co-Masonic group in our area, not tell her that there is no such thing as a female Freemason.
As the old saying goes, a rising tide does indeed raise all boats.
I also think that it can be extremely helpful to learn about one another. Perhaps 2 or 3 years ago the GL of California arranged a discussion (via Zoom, pandemic time) with the GM of a female only GL in that State. I was honored to be invited to sit in on that discussion, and I learned a great deal about her organization, its aims and practices.
I recall a conversation I had after a lodge meeting with a respected brother. The focus of the conversation was the notion “free born”. His stance was that it’s utterly rendered meaningless by virtue of our current views on freedom. Chiefly, that while someone could be made a slave through force, no one is born a slave. We believe that people are born free. So how much weight does the notion “free born” carry in our evaluation of a man of being worthy of initiation? I’m sure most of us don’t give it a second thought. So, it would stand to reason that we still have customs and language in our ritual that is from a bygone era where the views of the individual were much different. My point here is that Masonry has, and will, change. In England, they use to have separate lodges for each religion (ie a Jewish Lodge, a Christian Lodge, etc). They were all considered equal, but separate. Then it changed. And of course there’s Prince Hall Masonry. Once separate, now included. We have the concept of “are you a man?” In our language and requirements, but I’ve never once seen a Masonic Code that seeks to define what “a man” is. If we got all the Masons in the US together to come up with a definition it would be surprisingly difficult to do, I think.
Yes in Israel they have women in the military and we do that but in Israel just look at the Kotel (the Wall) and you will see the two sections one for the men on the left and a short wall dividing the women on the right side.
Not too many years ago one of our Grand Master's recommendations was to remove the language related to 'free born' from our ritual here in Washington. Ritual changes require a 90% vote to pass or a 50% vote to carry over to the next year. As I recall, his recommendation did not receive even the lesser amount of votes.
If my memory serves, most of the arguments against it were due to tradition. A desire to not change a part of the ritual that has been contained within it for so many years, despite the fact that it is meaningless within the United States now, and indeed for generations.
You are certainly correct that Freemasonry changes, but it often changes painfully slowly. I reflect on the GL of Washington's efforts to recognize Prince Hall. It took us over 100 years of work to get it done, despite a strong desire over those years to do it, and attempts to do it.
I don't think that we need to define what a man is. I think the man in question does that on his own. I guess what I'm trying to say is that we require a candidate to hold a belief in God. But we don't ask him what God means to him. Likewise, we require a candidate to be a man, but we don't (and need not) ask him what being a man means to him.
Otherwise, the situation you mention would certainly come about. How could it be defined? What about the man who no longer had the physical attributes of a man because of treatment of disease or accident? The discussions would go round and round forever.
A man is a man because he believes himself to be a man, just as a man believes in God because he believes himself to believe in God. Anything else is too convoluted.
And of course, if a Lodge questions his veracity through his actions, behaviors, or words, the Lodge has the black cube.
I actually saw this happen once. A seemingly very good candidate had come to a local Lodge. Very shortly prior to his Initiation a number of us were sitting around a table talking and he started talking in depth about a traumatic experience in his life, through the course of that he let is slip that he did not believe in God. He had intended on joining the Fraternity anyway, and he almost got in, but in the heat of the moment he exposed his atheism.
I know Brothers from England who have mentioned this and I just didn't get involved in the conversation.
When I hear people talk about anything and saying "well they do it in _____ country" the first thing I think is they can do what they want but that doesn't mean I should do it.
And then where will this stop?
I don't even have to say all the reasons since here in Washington ALL of those other subjects happen daily here ( I will just say Port Townsend)
And that one reason "well women can do ______ so we should be able to be Masons and in your Lodges" are another one I am not a "fan" of.
Every year we discuss what we need to do to find new members to join us that could be Masonic and THIS is never brought up as the thing to do AND I guarantee if it became the new Grand Lodge rule it will be the reason why members would instantly stop showing up to Stated meetings.
We already have the Order of the Eastern Star and Rainbow Girls I don't ask to be a member there.
Or the WNBA or LPGA.....ok I'm too old to do that these days >:-P
(and I wasn't going to say anything but I just am waking up and my eyes are still blurry but not that blurry that my mind would change)
We do, in my view, cede a bit too much credence to the UGLE. Not saying that I have any problem with the UGLE, because I don't, but I don't think that particular Grand Lodge to somehow be 'the be all end all' of Masonic wisdom or practice. There is much to admire in the other old Grand Lodges, Scotland, Ireland, and I'm certain that we could learn much from the Grand Orient of France as well.
So, I guess what I'm saying is that I'm kinda like you. I appreciate knowing what they are doing in England (or other countries) Masonically, but I don't think we need to follow them blindly. Heck, blindly following them has wrongly convinced millions of Masons through the years that Freemasonry was founded in London in 1717, something quite clearly not the case.
Plus they changed the Square and Compasses. Why on earth would they have done that?
OK, so that last is a bit facetious, but the point stands. American Freemasonry needs to make its own decisions, informed by others, but never blindly. I think it has to be that way everywhere on the globe, for surely local conditions are quite different from place to place, country to country.
Hope to see you next saturday over at District 11 Lodge #107 MW
Thank you Brother, but no can do. The Mrs. has plans for me.
She's been after me to do something for quite a few years now, me I just kinda smile and nod. Imagine my surprise a short time ago when she told me that she'd made all the (extremely extensive) plans without tellin' me.
Melinda's been following me around from Lodge to Lodge for quite a few years now, so I've gotta follow her around on this one.
Yes the good old "Honey-Do" .......I will get you over here again one of these days.......either #6 or #107 ......and hopefully inside the Lodge it won't be as hot as it was that one time you were at the #107 Stated meeting.......both of us could have used a fan in front of us that evening :-P
Your District is one of my very favorite places for Masonry. I'll certainly be back before long!
Safe Journey, Brother.
Thank you W Brother!
Most recently, the Boy Scouts of America...in an effort to preserve rather than streamline their costly overhead and executive retirement system...decided to allow girls in Scouting. Whereas it takes many boys nearly 7 years to earn Eagle Scout rank (ages 11 to 18), girls can become Eagles in ONE year. The organization that once built character has lost its way and ransomed its soul.
The feminization of Freemasonry seem to be about preservation, not inclusion and diversity. I'm certain that we can determine much better ways forward than that. But, if we start down this path, will it begin with transgender "men"? BTW, my pronouns are...
Harsh, but true. If we stray from the values of our institution we become the authors of our own destruction.
As a kid I was very heavily involved in the Boy Scouts. Cub Scouts and Webelos before that. As a young man I became a Scouter for a time. Through that involvement, and involvement in the FFA, I think that I probably learned more about how to live my life than I ever did in formal education.
We need groups like Scouting, if we are to turn out the leaders of tomorrow. It is sad to see the decline.
I'm not 100% sure what all the causes of that decline are though. I notice that kids are raised much differently today than we were raised when I was young. I see parents today who seem absolutely convinced that their child will die if they were to walk to the corner store on their own. When I was a kid we'd disappear for most of the day. No one worried that we were going to get kidnapped or somehow croak in a freak accident. Likewise, in Scouting my parents would send me off for a weekend, sometimes a week. (My father was a Scoutmaster, but he left the adventures to other fathers) I just don't see parents doing that today. I presume that unreasonable parental fear has harmed Scouting quite badly, along with everything else.
Back to Freemasonry...
In my view, if a Grand Lodge were to open itself up to accepting female members it would in no way boost membership nor preserve the Craft.
That has been proven by all the other fraternities and service clubs that have moved from male only to mixed membership. That opening up has not resulted in membership growth for them, and it would not for us.
As an Eagle Scout (1964). Scout leader for my two Eagle Scout sons, past executive vice president of the Tacoma council, national jamboree attendee (twice)) and chair of the national awards & recognition committee for Scouting Alumni, I have witnessed the heyday and decline of BSA. It’s a sad comment on “progress” and change for changes sake.
You were much more active than I could have hoped to be. Thank you for all of your service to the young men of your area! Alas, as the father of only daughters, none of my children were able to follow me into Scouting, or indeed into the Lodge.
Actually, the transgender discussion has been settled in the UK, and the UGLE has indicated it will let women who joined as men stay members.
My information could be wrong, but it was my understanding that the UGLE was forced to make this decision based upon the laws of the country in which it is based.
Personally, I believe that if a man no longer meets the requirements of Freemasonry, he ceases to be a Freemason.
For example, if a Man believes in God while joining Freemasonry, but later, long after he was made a Master Mason, he becomes an atheist, he is no longer a Freemason, for he no longer meets the requirements of being a Freemason.
I am aware that Jurisdictions exist that do not require a belief in God, and clearly in those Jurisdictions my example would not work, but I am referring to what we in the US consider to be Regular Freemasonry, where it is a universal requirement among Regular Lodges.
1. If you include women; how is it a fraternity?
2. If we become more like everyone else, if we compromise on our traditions, what will we become?
3. Men and women are different. They have different social psychology. Just because women can "...use a submachine gun and fly a plane..." Does not equate to being a man. Is masculinity a tenant of Freemasonry?
4. We have women pastors/preachers, CEOs, programmers, scientists, racecar drivers, doctors, lawyers, judges etc. Church in particular is a good example of diversity and inclusion of women. Although in the US, religion as a whole is in massive decline. Has including women more, changed this?
Why change with the times? Why would you ask me to violate my obligation? To gain new members? To try and be more relevant? Do the teachings of Jesus change? Moses? The Declaration of Independence? The Pareto distribution?
My point is we are the fraternity and institution that is not blown to and fro by every wind or culture change. No matter a cause's altruism, the ancient craft is not altruistic. It teaches virtue.
There already are is co-ed Masonry. If our values cause us to dwindle, to give up charters and consolidate; so be it. For he that endureth to the end, the same shall be saved.
Stay steadfast in the due performance of the same.
>>>If we become more like everyone else, if we compromise on our traditions, what will we >>>become?
I agree with your view. Freemasonry is an Ancient Craft and should remain true to its purposes. At some point, in the US, it became a Temperance Society. That didn't work out for it any more than for the country. I think that most if not all GL's have abandoned that craziness now. At some point though, it also became an institutional charity. I don't think that was ever its purpose. I'm convinced that change badly harmed membership growth for generations because we forgot to teach Freemasonry.
Freemasonry is what it is, and it should never change because outside forces 'demand' it.
>>>Men and women are different.
And I believe that as a result of those differences, Co-Masonry would have a much different culture and feel. I also believe that it would cause Masons to be much more insular within themselves. I don't think that these would be positive changes.
>>>Church in particular is a good example of diversity and inclusion of women. Although in the US, >>>religion as a whole is in massive decline. Has including women more, changed this?
My Church remains 100% masculine led, so I can't speak to that, but I do see the same parallels in other fraternal groups and service clubs that have let women join on an equal footing with men. Doing so has not turned around their membership declines.
>>>If our values cause us to dwindle, to give up charters and consolidate; so be it. For he that >>>endureth to the end, the same shall be saved.
I don't think that our Ancient values and teachings will lead to Freemasonry's decline. In fact, I think it is just the opposite. I think that we will have a very bright future when our Lodges begin once again teaching Freemasonry to Masons. That is after all why we became Masons, to learn Freemasonry, and improve ourselves through it. If we give our Initiates what they seek, our Lodges will thrive.
>>>If you include women; how is it a fraternity?
I think we generally use the term fraternity incorrectly in the US based on its use in university settings. I don't think that it is a specifically masculine term, hence the motto Liberty, Equality, Fraternity applies to all. But that is semantics.
In any event, like you, I believe that Regular Masonry needs to remain as it is, a male only institution. Surely men need 'spaces' to be men. Men need institutions to foster manhood.
This is a very difficult topic in the fraternity and in our jurisdiction especially.
Thinking about our obligation one sees a way in which we couldn't conceivably allow this change to occur in Washington. For many members this would be a slap in the face and it would cause many of our brethren to leave the fraternity forever. For me personally I took an obligation at the altar of freemasonry and while I get the concern and the thought process, I take my obligations seriously.
It would take many years of discussion and movement for this to occur. One of the things that would really concern me is that I would feel a disconnect from our history, and while moving forward is an honor it would take a lot for me to make a final decision.
I also look to what other jurisdictions would do. A decision like this could potentially alienate our Grand Lodge from the rest of the Country. Seeing as in 2022 we are still even attempting to get complete universal recognition of Prince Hall in the United States, and Washington has seen the response from other Grand Lodges about this in the past.
I would encourage to see a forum about this topic in a lodge of discussion.
I could well be wrong, but I don't see any US Grand Lodge leading this charge so to speak. I imagine that any change like this would be made by a European GL long before any US GL even considered it.
Of course, some European GL's, who we are not in amity with have already done things like this.
Or, give the quotes above, Israel just might be the first Regular GL to do it.
There are, perhaps, some Latin American GL's that have experimented along these lines. I don't have any information one way or the other about that, but one does see things on Social Media from time to time that seem to point in that direction.
I don't see this as an issue that the Grand Lodge of Washington will be taking up in my lifetime.
I would agree with you on the US Grand Lodges. I think the jurisdiction that would lead the charge here would be California. There Grand Lodge appears to have close ties to the UGLE and have posted about this topic on Social Media in the past.
I would say they I do not anticipate this discussion to progress within my lifetime, but then I need to remember I have been apart of this Fraternity since 2008 when I turned 18 and I am only 31 years old now.
I can only imagine what our fraternity will look like or change in the next 30-40 years. Based on discussion among brothers closer to my age across the country I could imagine a larger forum about masonry, membership, and how we interact with society changing significantly in the next 10-15 years.
In my faith of our organization we are strong and will be getting stronger. Many of the brothers my age are similarly minded and as we progress in life and within our organization who knows what the future may hold.
I do believe that Freemasonry is stronger right now than it has been in decades, and I think that the trend is upward. Driven by younger Masons that are demanding change, supported in those demands by older Masons who know that it is needed.
I believe that we will see further consolidations and mergers as things reach a new equilibrium, and that those Lodges that refuse to change will continue to die, but what remains will be strong, and it will be committed to the ideals of Freemasonry.
This is a complex question, with profound impacts to our fraternity. For me there are several questions that need to be answered before a decision is made.
What I am about to write is based on a biologically typical male and female. Adding the dimension of people who gender expression and biology are different would I expect only make my argument stronger, but frankly its beyond me right now to sort out.
Can women legitimately be Freemasons? This is not the question, the answer is simply, yes. Another question that is really pointless is can women benefit from Freemasonry? Again yes. These are questions based in supporting “the way we have always done things” argument. Men and women are, taken in the integral equal. However, there are differences in details.
The questions I think we need to answer, in my opinion, come from the esoteric aspect of our Craft. For example, “Are the male and female mysteries, symbols and ritual expression different?” In many societies male and female members go through different ‘initiations’ into adulthood and as members of that society. Our third degree has elements of what is called a ”solar mythology” and often solar mysteries are tied to male systems of spiritual evolution. As a man I know that our mythology of our degrees resonates with my deep archetypal needs. Would that work for a woman? Honestly, I don’t know. What I do know is if they do not, then our degrees would need to be altered to female mysteries to be as useful for women. I think that, would dilute the degrees efficacy for both men and women.
That said, dual and equivalent systems tailored to the needs of each gender, meeting/combining after the sublime third degree of each system could exists in the same jurisdiction. If there needed to be a different mythological basis for women, and a degree set was developed for that so that they achieved equivalent moral/ethical/spiritual elevation to the current male system with each degree, then why not? A joined jurisdiction under those conditions could not only serve women, but society as a whole.
Finally, one of the ways Freemasonry affected our society was by the enlightening effect of our system of degrees. Then those men went out and worked as men in a male dominated world. The world today is not male dominated and women are playing a crucial and important role in running our world. To deny them the benefits of a system like ours seems foolish to me. I also think that today’s women would not be satisfied with membership in a subordinate organization, and would expect equality if they are to participate.
I imagine that you are certainly correct in pointing out that mythology and symbolism that speaks well to men, may not speak as well to women. Certainly in the past there have been efforts to provide the knowledge and benefits of Freemasonry to women. Robert Morris' work that has never been realized, and Pike's Rite of Adoption quickly come to mind. Of course, created by men, who knows how successful they could have been, if one of their systems was actually adopted.
I also agree, 100%, that today's women would not be satisfied with a subordinate organization. I think we see this plainly in the OES. As it is practiced within our Masonic Jurisdictions it is not an effective means for communicating the lessons of Freemasonry. Indeed, it doesn't even seem to attempt to do so. My wife, myself, and two of my daughters are members, none of us were able to get anything meaningful from it, so none of us have been active for many years now. I think that it has two options, it can either change to create meaning (The system as designed by Morris has never actually been implemented) or it will no longer exist in a fairly short period of time.
Ultimately, I don't think that men can somehow drive female Freemasonry. If that is to grow and thrive, women would need to create it. Not men, and not men simply opening our doors to women. For as you rightly say, there are differences between the genders. Recognizing that is I think a longstanding law within the Western Esoteric Tradition, of which Freemasonry is a part.
Totally agree. There has been a place for women in the WMT for sometime, and they did/do hold leadership positions. As with our order, many of those traditions were based in mythology, and those mythologies were designed/chosen to accomadate both genders equally, or at least more equally. i am for an integrated Craft, but against just openning the doors. i think it needs to be carefully done, with wisdom and compassion. Like i said, a complex problem. Like so many of the challenges we face today, extraordinary leadership is called for to address it. Good topic, thanks.
I'm glad that this topic was enjoyed and engaged so many. I never quite know when I throw these topics out what will resonate. It's pleasing to see that this one did.
Thank you for reading The Magpie Mason!
While I never have visited Israel, being Jewish I take more than a passing interest in news pertaining to it. I’m thinking how, because it is a small country, you see people of all backgrounds integrated into nearly all places in society. (The lone exception that springs to mind is religious higher education, but I could be wrong about that.)
For Israel, allowing some lodges to be “co-ed” would be congruent with anything else in life. Being a small nation, every pair of hands is needed. In their lodges, Jews, Christians, Muslims, Druze, et al.; ethnic European, African, Asian people, et al. all meet on the Level. The unexplored frontier is the mixing of the two sexes.
If they do forge ahead with this idea, I will be interested to see how grand lodges around the world will react with their recognition standards.
Jay
I try to read The Magpie Mason everyday. I always enjoy your reporting about things happening within Masonry. Plus, we lovers of the briar must stick together!
I too think it would be quite interesting seeing how other GL's react (or not) if they moved forward with this. I don't imagine that all US GL's would react as a block. I can see where there would quite likely be differences of opinion that would drive different actions.
To be honest, I don't think much discussion is needed. Freemasonry is a Fraternity whose goal is to make good men better. There is co-masonry, women's freemasonry, and concordant bodies which women are free to join. I see no reason to violate my obligation and make regular Masonry co-ed.
I'm sorry, but I think that I have to disagree regarding the amount of discussion that is needed.
I think that if we don't discuss these things now, we could well wake up in 20 years to see a Freemasonry that is much different than what we believe it should be. If we don't make our voices heard relating to the future of our Fraternity, forces that we may not agree with will drive its future instead of ourselves.
I do agree with you that we should not make our GL's Co-Masonic, but I think we do well to discuss it, for I fear that if we do not we can easily lose control.
I also think that we do well to figure out how to acknowledge existing forms of Co-Masonry and female Masonry for by doing so we ensure that those seeking such things can find them, instead of agitating to change Masonry from the outside.
Lastly, I agree with you re: our Obligations. I know that they may be different from Jurisdiction to Jurisdiction, but in Washington anyway, there is no way for one of our Lodges to make a woman a Mason without the Brothers doing so violating their Obligations.
Apologies if my statement came off as dismissive. That wasn't my intent. Yes, discussing it is important so that we can understand ourselves in relation to how other "irregular" and "clandestine" bodies change and adapt. By observing them and their growth (or decline) we can have a better understanding of what may work for "regular" Masonry.
Encouraging women (or transgender/agender/etc.) individuals to explore the many disparate forms of Masonry, even if they can't join our own lodges, is definitely beneficial and, while we don't have mutual recognition with those organizations, I think would help the craft (if one views "the craft" as the entirety of masonry currently being practiced) overall.
I guess I'm wary of changes like this because you can look at any organization which changes to "get with the times" and typically see a decline in interest in that organization. We just have to look at other fraternities to see what changing or doing away with ritual, or adjusting membership criteria, can do in regards to people being interested in that group. Who comes to mind now is the Knights of Columbus who revamped their whole ritual structure into a 30 min-1 hour public ceremony for all of their degrees. Or just look at the Oddfellows, who are now co-ed, and see what their numbers are like.
Finally, should there be more dialogue between "regular" masonic bodies and "irregular/clandestine" bodies? Absolutely. Should we change to "get with the times" when masonic bodies already exist to fill that niche? No. I'm not worried about the GL of WA changing, but if one GL makes that decision it does open up the doors for more "schisms" which would only hurt "regular" masonry overall.
>>>I guess I'm wary of changes like this because you can look at any organization which >>>changes to "get with the times" and typically see a decline in interest in that >>>organization. We just have to look at other fraternities to see what changing or doing >>>away with ritual, or adjusting membership criteria, can do in regards to people being >>>interested in that group. Who comes to mind now is the Knights of Columbus who >>>revamped their whole ritual structure into a 30 min-1 hour public ceremony for all of >>>their degrees. Or just look at the Oddfellows, who are now co-ed, and see what their >>>numbers are like.
Agreed, and I think that we have seen this with Service Clubs as well. When the changes were made, while potential membership doubled, actual membership collapsed. It just didn't work from a practical standpoint.
>>>if one GL makes that decision it does open up the doors for more "schisms" which >>>would only hurt "regular" masonry overall.
Thank you for this, it is an important point that we all do well to remember, for it would cause schism.
Given the status of membership and working Spouses today, over 100 years ago Women were allowed to vote:
“ Approved by the Senate on June 4, 1919, and ratified in August 1920, the Nineteenth Amendment marked one stage in women's long fight for political equality. This timeline features key moments on the Senate's long road to the ratification of the Nineteenth Amendment to the Constitution.”
I have no plausible reason when asked by Women to explain “why not”.
I also have a difficulty dealing with “we’ve never done xxxx ‘full in the blanks’ before.
Our Spouses seem content that their Husbands are among honorable Men…
Our Spouses enjoy those moments of free time.
We struggled accepting Prince Hall.
I would hate to see a legal challenge to force us.
I believe Women would adhere to our Obligations though some need to be changed.
Will this happen…yes…when will it happen?
When it does happen we will assuredly look back and ask “why didn’t we do this earlier”?
Would OES be impacted if a Women decided to stay in Blue Lodge with her husband?
Would a couple have a stronger marriage when both vow to a higher moral standard.
Membership would sky rocket.
These are my thoughts void of solutions.
>>>I would hate to see a legal challenge to force us.
I have often wondered what would happen if someday we were faced by a Government ruling or regulation that required Freemasons to violate their obligations.
It is my view that such a ruling/regulation would be the sign that we needed to go back underground. The current system of Masonic Government has existed for just over 300 years, and our Ancient Craft has been public for that span of time. But, Freemasonry existed long before it adopted the current Grand Lodge system, and long before it ever let the public know of its existence.
Indeed, even today secret Masonic Lodges exist in nations of this world where Lodges are illegal.
We could, and if Government required us to violate our obligations, we should I think, go back to the Ancient, secret ways of doing things. Doing so would of course cause us to abandon our massive collective assets, but Freemasonry does not need fancy buildings or big investment accounts to thrive. As a very smart Mason told me many years ago, Great Freemasonry needs nothing more than three very committed Masons, sitting together in a garage, talking about our Craft.
Female exclusion in Lodges is certainly not the only issue Government might decide to change via immoral fiat, but I imagine it to be one of them. The thing is though, once Government got involved, it would never stop. It would keep cutting Freemasonry until there was absolutely nothing left.
I'd like to start my response by telling a recent story about a man who approached me about joining the Fraternity. I don't know this for sure, but I imagine most Brothers approach a prospective candidate in a similar fashion. One of my first questions is always "Why do you want to become a Freemason?". In this particular scenario the gentleman gave what I honestly thought was one of the best answers I've ever received.
He said that he worked in Elementary Education and research associated with it. He is in his early 30's and he told me that his field is almost completely women. On a daily basis, even in his "nicest" and most "meek" tones, he is received as aggressive and mean to his co-workers. He wanted to find a group of men that he could learn from and grow from. He clearly didn't understand the female perspective of his approaches and thought about the fact that there are a ton of groups aimed at supporting women in a male dominated world, but Freemasonry might be one of the only groups that truly is trying to "make good men better".
That being said, I believe that the Fraternity is geared towards helping men find their role in society. I know there have been women analog groups that have done similar things and I support that, but when it comes to whether or not women should be accepted into the Fraternity, I feel like it both lessens the main purpose of what we are trying to do, and the experience we would offer a woman would not be an experience that is geared towards them.
If it's truly just the "Esoteric" nature of the Fraternity that these women are after, there are also other organizations that accept both men and women and still give a forum to discuss these Esoteric topics. One such organization would be Martinism.
Your point is very well taken. Men do need a school for manhood. MW Robert Davis has written about that extensively, and I think his arguments make a good deal of sense. I imagine that this need is growing within our society as more and more males are raised by single mothers with unfortunately absent fathers.
I think that usually when an interested man is asked the question you ask, they aren't sure how to answer. I don't think I was, not fully anyway. It sounds like this man however truly thought it out, and it is awesome that he was willing to share that.
I hate to hesitate to hijack the thread for a book recommendation, but Understanding Manhood In America by R. Davis seems perfectly suited to this discussion: https://robertgdavis.net/product/understanding-manhood-in-america/
Since Co-Masonry exists within our jurisdiction (Washington) the only reason why women would want to join the fraternity would be because they can't. If they have the means to join an organization that allows women, why would they insist on joining a male only one? If it is because of they want to be with their husbands, let the husbands join hers. Nothing stopping him from doing so, except that he would most likely be expelled from the fraternity for it. Life is hard choices.
Women, to be blunt, would interfere with the harmony and fellowship of the lodge. It would be inevitable.
I also joined for many reasons, but one was that I needed a place to socialize and be around like minded men, where we can have that camaraderie and bonding that doesn't happen once you introduce women into the equation.
At one of the lodge leadership retreat dinners a few years ago, I was seated at a table with a middle aged couple. The wife made a comment that if women were allowed to join freemasonry, she would be the first to join. I replied, if women were allowed to join our fraternity, I'd be the first to demit. They didn't like my answer, but it was true, and I suspect it would be true for a lot of others. If the GL were somehow able to get such a resolution passed, it would not have the desired effect they think it would have.
Having sat through a couple of Eastern Star installations, all I can say is God help us all.
>>>Having sat through a couple of Eastern Star installations, all I can say is God help us all.
Rarely does a post make me laugh out loud, but having sat through the never, ever, ending introductions myself, this one certainly did.
I think that there is a great deal of potential locked within the OES, as it is, and as it was designed by Robert Morris. But for that potential to be realized will take very strong leadership, and tremendous change. Without those things, the organization will not long survive in any form.
I was raised in 1974. For much of the twentieth century, Freemasonry membership brought with it opportunities for business and career advancement. My first employer had an active Fellowcraft Club whose monthly meetings allowed me to meet many of the firm's executive staff on a personal level. One could argue that, women being denied membership in the craft, this discrimination limited their career opportunities. In the twenty-first century, the advantages of Masonic membership are now limited to expanding one's social circle, with an emphasis on growth, both as a man and citizen. As a result, the act of denying women membership has lost much of its unsavory connotations.
The following paragraph from The Good Men Project suggests the benefits of maintaining the craft's traditional male-only membership. "It is invaluable to have a group of reliable men who we see consistently over time, with whom we can build a circle of trust and where we can tell our darkest stories without risk of shame. Together we form a stronghold where it is possible to drop our heavy shields and replace our defenses with the real safety that comes with genuine self-awareness and self-understanding." https://goodmenproject.com/ethics-values/5-amazing-reasons-to-join-a-mens-group-fiff/
>>>It is invaluable to have a group of reliable men who we see consistently over time, with whom >>>we can build a circle of trust and where we can tell our darkest stories without risk of shame.
Thank you for this.
Not often, but on rare occasions, I have been present in a Lodge meeting where a man has told his 'darkest story' and how he overcame that which had plagued his life. These have been the most powerful Masonic meetings I've ever encountered, and I believe quite healing for the man in question.
I do not believe that those things would have happened had women been present. I think that our natural instincts and societal conditionings would have prevented the men in question from opening up.
Given that our stated purpose is to help a man become a better man, precluding this opportunity seems to be contrary to that purpose.