I really think this is inventive and for those of us who are interested in all things esoteric this could be a blueprint for any smaller rural lodges attracting a similar local following that would benefit the General community as well as the Masonic one.
(A few cautions i thought of):
Does the group need to have an insurance policy covering basic use of the lodge so that if one of them gets hurt The policy covers the damages?
Is there a waiver required as well simply as a matter of record that all participants knowingly use the lodge? While leaving the Lodge blameless for their conduct or for anything that might befall them?
Are the utilities being used during the event putting the lodge in any kind of financial setback such as excessive heat on cold days, restroom supplies being Consumed, or if they use the kitchen is there any possible liability that could fall back on the lodge?
Does the Lodge retain a membership list of the group in question so that if some random person decided to join the group and then caused mischief or possibly damage or vandalised the building their identity could be verified and checked against the list for a police report and/or insurance claim information?
Are there cameras running that show the group just in case there was some sort of mishap or an incident?
Would the group be consuming alcohol if it was a mixer as well as an esoteric conference and what they have a banquet permit or someone responsible for checking IDs to avoid any kind of underage drinking?
If the group met at the lodge and someone’s car broke down and sat there in the parking lot for days or weeks and with that cause liability for the lodge as well as taking up one of the parking spaces which might be needed for an event or an additional rental for another group Which might impact attendance ?
Assuming the temple board had processes in place to protect the lodge from any of these events occurring or policies that justified a meeting I think it’s an excellent way for the Lodge to be relevant to the community and the community to enjoy the building for the treasurer that it is.
And the networking opportunities seem like a fantastic way to get to know other people interested in the esoteric and have many fine discussions and conversations.
Banquet permits are my primary concern if we allow others to use our building, and their event includes the serving of alcohol. I think that we ignore liquor laws only at extreme risk. A crash involving someone who was drinking in our building could lead to financial disaster if we made the choice to ignore the law.
I never worry much about insurance though. I think that if a Temple Board is properly insured, in this case for outside use, things are properly covered. Much like if I was a landlord for residential property, I would certainly like to see my renters have renters insurance, to protect them, but it wouldn't be necessary to protect me.
Parking lots can certainly cause headaches! At Centralia Lodge we don't actually own a parking lot, because long ago, the Lodge donated its parking lot to the City for public parking. That worked out well, as far as I know, for decades and decades. But, now we have residential spaces around the Lodge, that don't have adequate parking. So, lots of those people are parking in the parking lot, including one fellow who is a car collector of sorts, so he alone is taking up half a dozen spaces. The City is writing rules to clean that mess up now, but as with all government action, it takes a good long time.
These are all great points, and things I've been thinking about along with Brother Chad N, and spoke with another Brother from Naval Lodge No. 4 in Washington, DC about.
With regards to the insurance -- if it's a conference or comparable scale gathering, the entity hosting the event (not the Temple Board) should have an event insurance policy with minimum policy limits of $1M (this is industry standard for E&O policies). It's cheap, too, and ensures the Temple Board is covered in entirety.
A signed, dated Acceptable Use Policy and Operational Agreement should be required for any non-Masonic body using our buildings. Violations of said policies may include and lead up to litigation.
Utility and consumables should be covered by whatever rent the hosting entity pays to use the space. This shouldn't be a problem. If alcohol is to be consumed on premises, they are responsible for providing a copy of a valid event liquor license. Use of the kitchen (if the kitchen is not up to health standards) is strictly forbidden. If they will serve food, they must provide receipts for their catering service. Offload as much liability as possible onto the renter is what I'm getting at.
I'm not sure about keeping a register of attendees -- that could tread into murky territory with regards to data privacy, and most Temple Boards do not have adequate budgets to meet the requirements for securely storing PII over arbitrary time periods. This goes back to offloading liability to the renters -- if they're using the building and one of their attendees behaves unscrupulously, it is on the renter to remedy the situation.
Depending on the jurisdiction, recording may or may not be legal without written consent. However, cameras in public areas should be a default considering video doesn't lie (as long as it is not tampered with).
As I mentioned, no alcohol consumption should be permitted without proof of an event license to serve alcohol, and certified staffing that is licensed and trained to serve alcoholic beverages. If alcohol is intended to be served, that should also carry a premium on the rent considering adult refreshments can lead to individuals becoming intemperate and imprudent. It shouldn't be an outright "No" in the Acceptable Use and Operational agreements, but it should be strictly enforced with the renter carrying all liabilities, insurances, and accountability for their attendees.
Individuals vehicles are their problem. Just like anywhere else -- if your car dies, and you don't get it towed or moved within x time period, we'll have it towed at your expense. Simple.
Otherwise, yes. These kind of events can be incredibly lucrative for a Lodge, show the local community that we're not an artifact of history, that we DON'T have a pet goat stashed in some room, we're not a cult, and are actually normal (within reason).
>>>I'm not sure about keeping a register of attendees -- that could tread into murky >>>territory with regards to data privacy, and most Temple Boards do not have adequate >>>budgets to meet the requirements for securely storing PII over arbitrary time >>>periods.
I'd agree with this, but even if we didn't have the storage concerns, I'd argue that it is an unreasonable invasion of the outside group's privacy. Whatever group is using the building is responsible for the actions of its group members, so I see no benefit, only drawbacks to creating or holding such a list.
Agreed with all of the above. Excellent points made by all above.
I think an objective use policy aligning with our core tenets and use of space, a security deposit/card on file, and a rental contract requiring a renter to provide proof of insurance coverage and waiver of liability should resolve the majority of issues hosting these events might present. It also wouldn't hurt to have a Brother attend to oversee the shenanigans and share about our organization if the opportunity arises.
>>>it also wouldn't hurt to have a Brother attend to oversee the shenanigans
Undoubtedly. To my mind one of the big benefits of doing something like this is that the Brothers who are interested in such things have them available at the Lodge, but the Lodge itself isn't having to create it.
That would be sooooo excellent. Even if they offered it on Zoom for a year or two until enough people knew about it and wanted to attend in person, that would be so cool !
I think it's a great idea. I also think besides conferences, allowing classes, group meeting, etc of esoteric groups in our Lodges would be a great source of revenue and a source of possible candidates.
I agree, such things could be a really solid source of potential candidates. I'm not so sure about revenue. The small local group that I am a part of (for me it is only that single group) has just about exactly zero dollars. But, I imagine others might be in a stronger financial position.
Another possible benefit though is in community use of our building. Many Lodges seek tax breaks, and others seek grants. For the first there must be non Masonic community use of the building, and for the second such use helps.
I can say that if a Lodge held an open-to-the-public esoteric event in my area, I would certainly attend. I love metaphysical fairs and conferences, and as an outsider I'd very much enjoy visiting a Lodge as well.
So yeah, as a member of the general public? I can 100% recommend this :-)
I genuinely appreciate your work here, as many of the ideas you discuss can be utilized in regular, day-to-day life. As such, I try to contribute where I can, in whatever limited capacity... :-)
I get that, and my experience of small esoteric groups is that they rarely are flush with cash. Opening our doors at a greatly discounted rate, might pay long term dividends. Once we cover the costs of heat/AC, and the bathrooms I think we could view other benefits. For example, as I said a source for candidates, but also a source of presentations, and classes offered to the Lodge members. Most of our Lodges sit idle most of the day, and many nights making no profit at all. It also could make the Masonic Lodges community anchors for the esoteric, a safe and reliable place to meet and share.
Agreed. Looking at my building, I don't see where there would be much at all in the way of extra costs. A bit of heat at most. So, I think the whole thing would be to the positive, even if we gave the space away.
Another problem with our buildings sitting empty the vast majority of the time is that it gives the impression that Masonry no longer exists. Some years ago we took to leaving lights on in our Temple at all times so that it appears as if the building is vital and busy. But, how much better if it actually was vital and busy!
>>>It also could make the Masonic Lodges community anchors for the esoteric, a safe and >>>reliable place to meet and share.
MW Brother, I think this is a great idea. I look forward to seeing what kind of events we can get lined up for the coming year, it should be a lot of fun!
I think the broader our outreach and involvement with our communities the better as it presents more opportunities for us to meet possible prospects/candidates for the Craft, and positive reputations in our communities. That way people will have the opportunity to actually see what we are about, rather than just what they read on that one forum somewhere...
I am particularly interested in the esoteric and philosophical events we might host to share space with those who might appreciate what we have to offer.
>>>I am particularly interested in the esoteric and philosophical events we might host to >>>share space with those who might appreciate what we have to offer.
An excellent idea!!
I really think this is inventive and for those of us who are interested in all things esoteric this could be a blueprint for any smaller rural lodges attracting a similar local following that would benefit the General community as well as the Masonic one.
(A few cautions i thought of):
Does the group need to have an insurance policy covering basic use of the lodge so that if one of them gets hurt The policy covers the damages?
Is there a waiver required as well simply as a matter of record that all participants knowingly use the lodge? While leaving the Lodge blameless for their conduct or for anything that might befall them?
Are the utilities being used during the event putting the lodge in any kind of financial setback such as excessive heat on cold days, restroom supplies being Consumed, or if they use the kitchen is there any possible liability that could fall back on the lodge?
Does the Lodge retain a membership list of the group in question so that if some random person decided to join the group and then caused mischief or possibly damage or vandalised the building their identity could be verified and checked against the list for a police report and/or insurance claim information?
Are there cameras running that show the group just in case there was some sort of mishap or an incident?
Would the group be consuming alcohol if it was a mixer as well as an esoteric conference and what they have a banquet permit or someone responsible for checking IDs to avoid any kind of underage drinking?
If the group met at the lodge and someone’s car broke down and sat there in the parking lot for days or weeks and with that cause liability for the lodge as well as taking up one of the parking spaces which might be needed for an event or an additional rental for another group Which might impact attendance ?
Assuming the temple board had processes in place to protect the lodge from any of these events occurring or policies that justified a meeting I think it’s an excellent way for the Lodge to be relevant to the community and the community to enjoy the building for the treasurer that it is.
And the networking opportunities seem like a fantastic way to get to know other people interested in the esoteric and have many fine discussions and conversations.
What a great list of reminders for the Temple Boards, thanks!
Banquet permits are my primary concern if we allow others to use our building, and their event includes the serving of alcohol. I think that we ignore liquor laws only at extreme risk. A crash involving someone who was drinking in our building could lead to financial disaster if we made the choice to ignore the law.
I never worry much about insurance though. I think that if a Temple Board is properly insured, in this case for outside use, things are properly covered. Much like if I was a landlord for residential property, I would certainly like to see my renters have renters insurance, to protect them, but it wouldn't be necessary to protect me.
Parking lots can certainly cause headaches! At Centralia Lodge we don't actually own a parking lot, because long ago, the Lodge donated its parking lot to the City for public parking. That worked out well, as far as I know, for decades and decades. But, now we have residential spaces around the Lodge, that don't have adequate parking. So, lots of those people are parking in the parking lot, including one fellow who is a car collector of sorts, so he alone is taking up half a dozen spaces. The City is writing rules to clean that mess up now, but as with all government action, it takes a good long time.
These are all great points, and things I've been thinking about along with Brother Chad N, and spoke with another Brother from Naval Lodge No. 4 in Washington, DC about.
With regards to the insurance -- if it's a conference or comparable scale gathering, the entity hosting the event (not the Temple Board) should have an event insurance policy with minimum policy limits of $1M (this is industry standard for E&O policies). It's cheap, too, and ensures the Temple Board is covered in entirety.
A signed, dated Acceptable Use Policy and Operational Agreement should be required for any non-Masonic body using our buildings. Violations of said policies may include and lead up to litigation.
Utility and consumables should be covered by whatever rent the hosting entity pays to use the space. This shouldn't be a problem. If alcohol is to be consumed on premises, they are responsible for providing a copy of a valid event liquor license. Use of the kitchen (if the kitchen is not up to health standards) is strictly forbidden. If they will serve food, they must provide receipts for their catering service. Offload as much liability as possible onto the renter is what I'm getting at.
I'm not sure about keeping a register of attendees -- that could tread into murky territory with regards to data privacy, and most Temple Boards do not have adequate budgets to meet the requirements for securely storing PII over arbitrary time periods. This goes back to offloading liability to the renters -- if they're using the building and one of their attendees behaves unscrupulously, it is on the renter to remedy the situation.
Depending on the jurisdiction, recording may or may not be legal without written consent. However, cameras in public areas should be a default considering video doesn't lie (as long as it is not tampered with).
As I mentioned, no alcohol consumption should be permitted without proof of an event license to serve alcohol, and certified staffing that is licensed and trained to serve alcoholic beverages. If alcohol is intended to be served, that should also carry a premium on the rent considering adult refreshments can lead to individuals becoming intemperate and imprudent. It shouldn't be an outright "No" in the Acceptable Use and Operational agreements, but it should be strictly enforced with the renter carrying all liabilities, insurances, and accountability for their attendees.
Individuals vehicles are their problem. Just like anywhere else -- if your car dies, and you don't get it towed or moved within x time period, we'll have it towed at your expense. Simple.
Otherwise, yes. These kind of events can be incredibly lucrative for a Lodge, show the local community that we're not an artifact of history, that we DON'T have a pet goat stashed in some room, we're not a cult, and are actually normal (within reason).
>>>I'm not sure about keeping a register of attendees -- that could tread into murky >>>territory with regards to data privacy, and most Temple Boards do not have adequate >>>budgets to meet the requirements for securely storing PII over arbitrary time >>>periods.
I'd agree with this, but even if we didn't have the storage concerns, I'd argue that it is an unreasonable invasion of the outside group's privacy. Whatever group is using the building is responsible for the actions of its group members, so I see no benefit, only drawbacks to creating or holding such a list.
Agreed with all of the above. Excellent points made by all above.
I think an objective use policy aligning with our core tenets and use of space, a security deposit/card on file, and a rental contract requiring a renter to provide proof of insurance coverage and waiver of liability should resolve the majority of issues hosting these events might present. It also wouldn't hurt to have a Brother attend to oversee the shenanigans and share about our organization if the opportunity arises.
>>>it also wouldn't hurt to have a Brother attend to oversee the shenanigans
Undoubtedly. To my mind one of the big benefits of doing something like this is that the Brothers who are interested in such things have them available at the Lodge, but the Lodge itself isn't having to create it.
That would be sooooo excellent. Even if they offered it on Zoom for a year or two until enough people knew about it and wanted to attend in person, that would be so cool !
I think so too. Good for the Lodge, good for the Masons in the area, and good for the outside group.
This really could be the natural role of Lodges of Research.
Agreed!
I think it's a great idea. I also think besides conferences, allowing classes, group meeting, etc of esoteric groups in our Lodges would be a great source of revenue and a source of possible candidates.
I agree, such things could be a really solid source of potential candidates. I'm not so sure about revenue. The small local group that I am a part of (for me it is only that single group) has just about exactly zero dollars. But, I imagine others might be in a stronger financial position.
Another possible benefit though is in community use of our building. Many Lodges seek tax breaks, and others seek grants. For the first there must be non Masonic community use of the building, and for the second such use helps.
I can say that if a Lodge held an open-to-the-public esoteric event in my area, I would certainly attend. I love metaphysical fairs and conferences, and as an outsider I'd very much enjoy visiting a Lodge as well.
So yeah, as a member of the general public? I can 100% recommend this :-)
Thanks for this feedback as a non-Mason. That's really helpful, and I appreciate it!
I genuinely appreciate your work here, as many of the ideas you discuss can be utilized in regular, day-to-day life. As such, I try to contribute where I can, in whatever limited capacity... :-)
Thanks! I really enjoy reading your work too!
I get that, and my experience of small esoteric groups is that they rarely are flush with cash. Opening our doors at a greatly discounted rate, might pay long term dividends. Once we cover the costs of heat/AC, and the bathrooms I think we could view other benefits. For example, as I said a source for candidates, but also a source of presentations, and classes offered to the Lodge members. Most of our Lodges sit idle most of the day, and many nights making no profit at all. It also could make the Masonic Lodges community anchors for the esoteric, a safe and reliable place to meet and share.
Agreed. Looking at my building, I don't see where there would be much at all in the way of extra costs. A bit of heat at most. So, I think the whole thing would be to the positive, even if we gave the space away.
Another problem with our buildings sitting empty the vast majority of the time is that it gives the impression that Masonry no longer exists. Some years ago we took to leaving lights on in our Temple at all times so that it appears as if the building is vital and busy. But, how much better if it actually was vital and busy!
>>>It also could make the Masonic Lodges community anchors for the esoteric, a safe and >>>reliable place to meet and share.
And that would surely be a good thing.
I really think your lodge could benefit from this. I would love to have one of these local to me as well.
As I've thought about it today, I keep liking the idea more and more.
MW Brother, I think this is a great idea. I look forward to seeing what kind of events we can get lined up for the coming year, it should be a lot of fun!
I think the broader our outreach and involvement with our communities the better as it presents more opportunities for us to meet possible prospects/candidates for the Craft, and positive reputations in our communities. That way people will have the opportunity to actually see what we are about, rather than just what they read on that one forum somewhere...
I am particularly interested in the esoteric and philosophical events we might host to share space with those who might appreciate what we have to offer.
>>>I am particularly interested in the esoteric and philosophical events we might host to >>>share space with those who might appreciate what we have to offer.
Me too. I think that it is the most natural fit.